UAW Demands 46% Pay Hike

[fuzzymoomoo]

25 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

Has it been mentioned what will happen to ford’s future battery plants? Did they give in like GM?

I heard Marshall and Tennessee are. No word on Kentucky. We’ll all find out together on Sunday 

[Deanh]

15 hours ago, tbone said:

Dude should go fucking work somewhere else. If he thinks he’s worth more than that, go find it.   Nobody is making him stay at Ford. The company is under no obligation to pay him or anybody else what they want to be paid.  People like that piss me off. I can only imagine the quality of work a guy like that will put out with all of his bitterness.

 

....victim mentality thats constantly promoted currently...that BS HAS to stop...insane...and youre right, hes probably worthless...barring holding himself in high regard....

[silvrsvt]

18 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I heard Marshall and Tennessee are. No word on Kentucky. We’ll all find out together on Sunday 

 

IIRC the Tennessee plant is the Battery plant for BOC. They aren't that far away from each other. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

IIRC the Tennessee plant is the Battery plant for BOC. They aren't that far away from each other. 

I thought there was 2 in Tennessee, 1 in Kentucky and the 1 in Marshall that may or may not still be happening. 

[silvrsvt]

8 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I thought there was 2 in Tennessee, 1 in Kentucky and the 1 in Marshall that may or may not still be happening. 

 

https://corporate.ford.com/operations/blue-oval-city.html

 

Yeah your right-the BOC plant is getting a battery plant and the ones in Tennessee look like a JVs with SK

 

[fuzzymoomoo]

Interesting little tidbit I just found

 

https://x.com/mikemartinez_an/status/1717645031652155474?s=46

[mackinaw]

21 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Interesting little tidbit I just found

 

https://x.com/mikemartinez_an/status/1717645031652155474?s=46

 

I'm guessing Ford was planning on half of that.

[Bob Rosadini]

6 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

I agree with you but my question is in what way will he be detrimental?  Do you believe he will cost junior members to lose their jobs somehow down the road??

 

Detrimental in the sense with such high labor costs vs the Toyotas, Hondas,  Kias etc how can you minimize that disadvantage?

-Invest in more automation

-increase preassembled components.

- make design changes to simplify assembly process

-eliminate marginal products

-develop JVs such as Bluediamond

etc

Bottom line with no cost spread or minimal between senior guys at top rate and junior guys that much closer to the top vs old extended progression rates incentive to cut manpower is there..seniority list is a bitch!

[Bob Rosadini]

6 hours ago, ice-capades said:

While it may seem positive that Ford and UAW have agreed to a tentative agreement regarding the strike, Bill Ford needs to stop thinking that the relationship with the UAW is either friendly or a partnership. Other than the concessions that the UAW agreed to in the “Great Recession” contract, the relationship is strictly one of employer/employee. The UAW members are employees and paid to do a job and paid according to the terms of the CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement).

 

The recent and/or current labor dispute has been anything other than a negotiation, but a matter of the UAW issuing a list of non-negotiable demands. As the UAW has issued strike related work stoppages at specific plants, the “Big 3” have continued to make revised offers with improved wages and benefit.

 

There are terms in the Tenatative Agreement that make no sense.

• Right to strike over plant closures.
  • A major concession to the UAW to protect future job requirements based on anticipated lower labor requirements for BEV vehicle production.
  • Ford and the Big 3 should have rejected this as a “non-negotiable” issue.  
  • Did Ford in fact agree to this?

Part of the past agreements related to UAW contract concessions included profit-sharing agreements. With the current market situation (transition to BEV vehicle production and related costs) the profit-sharing agreement should be cancelled.

• Employees are paid to do a job per the CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement)
• Contract employees are not entitled to profit sharing.
• If employees want to profit in the Company’s success, they have the option to invest in the Company by the purchasing the Company’s stock.
• IMO profit sharing is a positive motivator.."Hey asshole-quit fucking around you are costin me money

I have no problem with payments for contract ratification which are common.

 

Ford and Bill Ford, in particular, need to stop thinking about the UAW being a partner or friend. With the events of the current strike situation, it’s time for Ford to send a message to the UAW that Ford will make future decisions based on what’s best for the Company, regardless of the impact on the UAW.

I think from Bill Ford's position nothing wrong with fostering that vision.  This contract will expire and I'm sure Ford will very carefully be making a point.  There are employees  (Fuzzy and others) on this site who get it.  But not enough and too many young people with that sense of entitlement. Until these negotiations started shedding light, how many people had a clue that Fain is the socialist that he is..at least from my perspective.  How about it..he makes 300g a year and he wears a "Eat the Rich shirt

 

One of the messages that Ford could send to the UAW is the announcement that Ford will either construct a new plant in Mexico or resume construction of the San Luis Postito site. In addition, although the costs would be similar to UAW costs, it would be to build a new facility in Canada or expand the Oakville Assembly Plant for additional vehicle production.

 

Ford’s Tentative Agreement with the UAW mortgages the financial future of the company and leaves little margin for error with potential and substantial changes in the economy going forward.

 

At the new top wage of at least $40 per hour, the result is a weekly gross of $1,600 or $83,200 per year not including additional benefits which easily put the average well above $100,000 per year including profit-sharing. I think that a lot of non-automotive workers would line up to earn those wages and benefits. The UAW should enjoy the new contract terms as the situation could change radically in the next four years.

Ice, you make some good points but like I said in another post, watch what happens now to minimize that labor cost disadvantage.

10 years ago grocery store checkout people were old dudes like me, young kids or part timers earning extra money.  Today a lot of the big chains are organized...and I usually go to the self check out...quick, swipe my points earning card, and I'm gone.

[Bob Rosadini]

5 hours ago, akirby said:

Paywalled

And I stopped my trial?

[ausrutherford]

1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

Detrimental in the sense with such high labor costs vs the Toyotas, Hondas,  Kias etc how can you minimize that disadvantage?

-Invest in more automation

-increase preassembled components.

- make design changes to simplify assembly process

-eliminate marginal products

-develop JVs such as Bluediamond

etc

Bottom line with no cost spread or minimal between senior guys at top rate and junior guys that much closer to the top vs old extended progression rates incentive to cut manpower is there..seniority list is a bitch!

 

1. Continue to promote the higher profit vehicles to US and Canadian Plants. 

2. Probably means the death of a US built Escape, whose margins must be the lowest of all US-built products at this time. 

3. A third Mexican plant is probably a certainty. They will need another plant for their lower profit vehicle lines. 

4. Continuation of revenue stream out of just vehicle sales like Ford Pro's connected services, etc. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by ausrutherford

[twintornados]

8 hours ago, ice-capades said:

...it’s time for Ford to send a message to the UAW that Ford will make future decisions based on what’s best for the Company.....

 

Any future decisions based on what is best for the Company needs to include their best asset...the line workers. People want to blame poor quality on the workers when if there is a quality issue, it is due to poor or inadequate design, not the men and women that put those designs together. A prime example is the 1.5L Ecoboost with coolant intrusion into the cylinders....is it the guy that built the motor or the designer that created it?

[iamweasel]

10 minutes ago, twintornados said:

 

Any future decisions based on what is best for the Company needs to include their best asset...the line workers. People want to blame poor quality on the workers when if there is a quality issue, it is due to poor or inadequate design, not the men and women that put those designs together. A prime example is the 1.5L Ecoboost with coolant intrusion into the cylinders....is it the guy that built the motor or the designer that created it?

 

You are 100% correct that line workers and the plant's themselves get too much blame on quality.  A high majority of vehicle issues are NOT due to plant assembly.  (Spent 3 years of my Ford life digging through JD Power and Consumer Reports surveys, warranty claim data, etc, so trust me.....I know.  I also spent a year in an Assembly Plant - Michigan Truck - and also got involved in a lot of that.)

 

That being said, the flip side is that means the line workers are far from the company's most valuable asset.  (And yes, I have worked line jobs, too, so I know EXACTLY what it's like to do those jobs all day.)  Those job's for the most part can be done by any average joe in any state/country.  So many of the jobs are "poka yoke'd" (to borrow one of my grad school buzz words LOL) and just about anyone can do the jobs.   (Look up the word if you want, I could use another word for what I wanted to say but it was not very polite.)  

 

Bottom line is Ford would shut down every plant tomorrow and move to the south and/or Mexico if didn't cost a zillion dollars to build a whole new plant network.  (Well truthfully Ford may not really do that as I said previously the Ford family is far too nice for that, but I'd bet GM and Stellantis would have no issue leaving the midwest behind if they could.)  It is not hard to find people to do those jobs.  Just look at all the new plants in the south - none of them have a hard time getting workers because most of the positions do not require any special skills so the available labor pool is huge.  I do not say this to be disrespectful as I still work in the industry and respect how hard everyone works.  I'm just being honest in my opinion.  Good engineers, designers, operations folks, etc are the ones who ultimately decide whether a given vehicle is a success or not, and those positions are much harder for the auto companies to fill.  

[akirby]

47 minutes ago, iamweasel said:

 

You are 100% correct that line workers and the plant's themselves get too much blame on quality.  A high majority of vehicle issues are NOT due to plant assembly.  (Spent 3 years of my Ford life digging through JD Power and Consumer Reports surveys, warranty claim data, etc, so trust me.....I know.  I also spent a year in an Assembly Plant - Michigan Truck - and also got involved in a lot of that.)

 

That being said, the flip side is that means the line workers are far from the company's most valuable asset.  (And yes, I have worked line jobs, too, so I know EXACTLY what it's like to do those jobs all day.)  Those job's for the most part can be done by any average joe in any state/country.  So many of the jobs are "poka yoke'd" (to borrow one of my grad school buzz words LOL) and just about anyone can do the jobs.   (Look up the word if you want, I could use another word for what I wanted to say but it was not very polite.)  

 

Bottom line is Ford would shut down every plant tomorrow and move to the south and/or Mexico if didn't cost a zillion dollars to build a whole new plant network.  (Well truthfully Ford may not really do that as I said previously the Ford family is far too nice for that, but I'd bet GM and Stellantis would have no issue leaving the midwest behind if they could.)  It is not hard to find people to do those jobs.  Just look at all the new plants in the south - none of them have a hard time getting workers because most of the positions do not require any special skills so the available labor pool is huge.  I do not say this to be disrespectful as I still work in the industry and respect how hard everyone works.  I'm just being honest in my opinion.  Good engineers, designers, operations folks, etc are the ones who ultimately decide whether a given vehicle is a success or not, and those positions are much harder for the auto companies to fill.  

Thats what the workers don’t want to admit.  While it is hard work it’s essentially unskilled labor.  They don’t design or engineer or market the vehicles so they play no part in making a vehicle successful.  And they’re most certainly not “partners”.  Partners don’t strike and make outrageous demands that will hurt their employer in the long run.

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

Thats what the workers don’t want to admit.  While it is hard work it’s essentially unskilled labor.  They don’t design or engineer or market the vehicles so they play no part in making a vehicle successful.  And they’re most certainly not “partners”.  Partners don’t strike and make outrageous demands that will hurt their employer in the long run.

And the easier a vehicle is to assemble………the big clue is in that phrase

Well designed vehicles truly set everyone up for success.

Edited October 27, 2023 by jpd80

[Oac98]

8 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

Detrimental in the sense with such high labor costs vs the Toyotas, Hondas,  Kias etc how can you minimize that disadvantage?

-Invest in more automation

-increase preassembled components.

- make design changes to simplify assembly process

-eliminate marginal products

-develop JVs such as Bluediamond

etc

Bottom line with no cost spread or minimal between senior guys at top rate and junior guys that much closer to the top vs old extended progression rates incentive to cut manpower is there..seniority list is a bitch!

I’m sure many changes are coming. I’m sure that Ford brass will be looking to do some of the things you suggest. We all know that with all this EV planning future plant closures or consolidation are gonna happen too. Everyone knows more automation is coming with EVs and less jobs as they require less labor to build. ICE isn’t going anywhere for now but lots of changes are coming. 

[Bob Rosadini]

14 hours ago, akirby said:

Thats what the workers don’t want to admit.  While it is hard work it’s essentially unskilled labor.  They don’t design or engineer or market the vehicles so they play no part in making a vehicle successful.  And they’re most certainly not “partners”.  Partners don’t strike and make outrageous demands that will hurt their employer in the long run.

The sad fact is if what I read is correct, the vote for the top dog position for the first time was a popular vote of the total UAW membership vs I guess a vote by regional UAW brass??

That being the case the voter turnout was 11%!  You can bet Fain had organized the radicals and too many reasonable guys stayed home.

Sad lesson unless the idiots are challenged everyday on the line, at lunch, in the locker room, the ignorant prevail as I see it.

[akirby]

16 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

The sad fact is if what I read is correct, the vote for the top dog position for the first time was a popular vote of the total UAW membership vs I guess a vote by regional UAW brass??

That being the case the voter turnout was 11%!  You can bet Fain had organized the radicals and too many reasonable guys stayed home.

Sad lesson unless the idiots are challenged everyday on the line, at lunch, in the locker room, the ignorant prevail as I see it.

Bingo.  Too many workers have zero perspective outside the industry and fall into two camps:  

 

We had it before we should have it now.  Totally ignores the fact that the competition is totally different and that we live in a global economy now.  When you own 90%+ of the mainstream market you can overcharge and get away with it.  Can’t do that now.

 

We deserve a bigger portion of the company’s profits.  No you don’t.  You deserve to be paid a fair wage for unskilled labor.  If you want profits start your own company or become an investor.

 

If I led the UAW I would protect existing workers, push for enhanced or early retirement packages, allow the company to hire new workers at lower cost to better compete with the non union mfrs.  All workers get a small monthly premium and deductible for health care like every other company in America.  I’d also make it easier to get rid of poor performers and ensure good benefits for layoffs and plant closures.

 

If you make it attractive for Ford to use UAW labor you won’t have to force them to keep plants open - they’ll expand the workforce here naturally.

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Bingo.  Too many workers have zero perspective outside the industry and fall into two camps:  

 

We had it before we should have it now.  Totally ignores the fact that the competition is totally different and that we live in a global economy now.  When you own 90%+ of the mainstream market you can overcharge and get away with it.  Can’t do that now.

 

We deserve a bigger portion of the company’s profits.  No you don’t.  You deserve to be paid a fair wage for unskilled labor.  If you want profits start your own company or become an investor.

 

If I led the UAW I would protect existing workers, push for enhanced or early retirement packages, allow the company to hire new workers at lower cost to better compete with the non union mfrs.  All workers get a small monthly premium and deductible for health care like every other company in America.  I’d also make it easier to get rid of poor performers and ensure good benefits for layoffs and plant closures.

 

If you make it attractive for Ford to use UAW labor you won’t have to force them to keep plants open - they’ll expand the workforce here naturally.

All of this screams of the UAW and its workers being “owed back pay” by companies, that certain privileges were taken away because of the dire economic situation leading up to and post global financial situation is a fact but your employer is not an insurance company required to pay out on perceived losses.

 

And you’re right, auto companies are not going to make workers financially whole for every perceived loss and grieveance but what they can do is meet the union with a great deal that costs them roughly $1,000 per car in profit but guess what, worker  profit bonus checks are going to be a lot less.

Edited October 27, 2023 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

I’d also make it easier to get rid of poor performers 

This has been my absolute biggest complaint since my first day on the line. I see a lot of forced retirements coming in the next 12-18 months. 

[Bob Rosadini]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

This has been my absolute biggest complaint since my first day on the line. I see a lot of forced retirements coming in the next 12-18 months. 

Fuzzy ..isn't that wishful thinking??  Ford can offer a package but that only gets the senior guys out.  And I'm sure some of them are the sandbaggers you want to see gone, but my guess would be there are more junior guys with a  "I don't give a shit" attitude who are the problem.  And where will these slugs get a job with the pay and beni's Ford has.  

They are in fat city!

Next time around Ford should push for more defined classifications that truly require skills.  Fair that these guys get 40 bucks...but someone who pulls two parts out of a bin, sticks them in a valve body and pushes it down the line?  20 bucks!  If you have such skill/difficulty classifications let me know

[fuzzymoomoo]

59 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Fuzzy ..isn't that wishful thinking??  Ford can offer a package but that only gets the senior guys out.  And I'm sure some of them are the sandbaggers you want to see gone, but my guess would be there are more junior guys with a  "I don't give a shit" attitude who are the problem.  And where will these slugs get a job with the pay and beni's Ford has.  

They are in fat city!

I’ve seen them force retirement before if you’re a big enough fuck up. It was either retire by the end of the day on a certain day or be fire and lose everything. I expect to see far more of that. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by fuzzymoomoo

[GearheadGrrrl]

25 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I’ve seen them force retirement before if you’re a big enough fuck up. It was either retire by the end of the day on a certain day or be fire and lose everything. I expect to see far more of that. 

Per ERISA federal law retirement is an earned benefit that can't be taken away, even if the employee is fired and the firing is sustained.

[iamweasel]

21 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I’ve seen them force retirement before if you’re a big enough fuck up. It was either retire by the end of the day on a certain day or be fire and lose everything. I expect to see far more of that. 

 

Good.  If you're going to pay premium wages then you better get premium performance.  

 

When I was a line supervisor, I had one lady who was buddies with the nurse in the medical office.  She was constantly asking to goto the bathroom or said he had a headache, etc.  Every time she got a break she would just go into the medical office and chit chat.  My floater, who was supposed to cover 20-25 stations, was seemingly on her station all the time due to her taking so many breaks.  After trying to reason with the lady it was clear she was just someone who didn't give a crap as long as she got paid.   (To not get in trouble the medical nurse would issue her tylenol or some other BS "prescription" and after going through her records she had something like 300 prescriptions in the last 100 days.  LOL....) 

 

So I spent a weekend reading through the "rules" and then on that Thursday (I was doing C-Crew at the time) I got the page from her station 15 minutes into the shift.  I'm mumbling to myself "what now" and walked up to her station and of course she wants to use the bathroom.  I look her right in the eyes, say okay, click a button on my watch, walk away and note the request time in my pocket notebook.  (Prior to that, I'd normally page the floater right then and ask him to come over but this time I didn't do that and she noticed.)   10mins later she pages me again.  I walk over and she starts yelling at me that she has to goto the bathroom.  I say okay again and walk away.  10mins later same thing....but this time she starts yelling at me as I'm walking away but I ignore it.  Then after one more page I finally get the floater over to her station around 44 minutes after she asks to use the bathroom. and note that in my     Every time she needed a break I'd do the same thing.

 

Fast forward a week later and I get called into the Assistant Plant Manager's office and the UAW committeeman is there.  She filed a formal complaint against me and I was charged with not letting her have required breaks, etc.  The committeeman was a loudmouth and after ranting for a while I simply said "per rule # XXX we must offer relief within 45 minutes of the request", whip out my notebook, and show them both the notebook with the request times and what time the floater got there - all within 45 minutes of each other.  The committeeman was speechless.  LOL.....

 

Good times....but even after me that lady kept working the system to get paid as much as she could and work as little as she could.  Those are the types of line workers where rules are needed to get rid of them faster.  (Note 98% of the line workers were great.  There was just a small group of people that were like that.)

[Dequindre]

It will be interesting to see what happens to the Flat Rock Plant if the UAW has guaranteed its existence for a few years. Will it continue to just produce one vehicle?