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ice-capades

UAW Demands 46% Pay Hike

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8 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I agree with you, but I'm guessing that is a battle that is getting kicked down the road and the Mustang is profitable, even though it is just one shift? Apparently the Flat Rock site is used for other things that Ford finds valuable too. 

It’s most certainly a future issue and if there are other things going on at the site only time will tell what fords future solution will be. 

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10 minutes ago, paintguy said:

$50 million doesn't go far when you need a paint shop. Spent almost $1 billion in Chicago. And no new paint shop.

A lot of these investments look more like money being spent for plant upgrades as opposed to major expansions.  I agree $50 million is not a whole lot of money.  I wonder if the $50 million is for routine plant upgrades and  "Pending program approval" will be another major investment down the road?  Ford may not be committing money to something that has not been approved yet. 

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12 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I agree with you, but I'm guessing that is a battle that is getting kicked down the road and the Mustang is profitable, even though it is just one shift? Apparently the Flat Rock site is used for other things that Ford finds valuable too. 

Flat Rock is now similar to gm's Corvette plant in Bowling Green.  I am sure the Mustang is profitable on one shift.  But who knows, with Chevy dropping the Camaro, a second shift may be needed down the road at Flat Rock.  I think the provision that gives the UAW the right to strike over plant closings will probably compel Ford to keep the plant open in some capacity.  

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47 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

Future plant consolidation is my prediction. Agreed??? Why have all this transfer language if this is not a possibility with all this EV shit and termination of some ICE  models? 

But Ford agreed to allow the UAW to strike over plant closings.  Not sure the company wants to try to cross that line.

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7 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

Flat Rock is now similar to gm's Corvette plant in Bowling Green.  I am sure the Mustang is profitable on one shift.  But who knows, with Chevy dropping the Camaro, a second shift may be needed down the road at Flat Rock.  I think the provision that gives the UAW the right to strike over plant closings will probably compel Ford to keep the plant open in some capacity.  

 

As one of the special Heritage products, the Mustang gets a bit special treatment when it comes to analyzing vehicle profitability.   It isn't held to the same standards as other vehicles.   A single shift plant is a killer for the vehicle line P&L because the fixed costs of running that plant are allocated against fewer units, but not much they can do about it right now since 2 shifts worth of Mustangs would be far more than market demand.  (And they don't produce anything else at Flat Rock to share the cost burden.)

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OAP gets biggest investment, 2.1bil.   Hopefully a good chunk of that will be on a true medium duty upgrade-class 6, 7.

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1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

OAP gets biggest investment, 2.1bil.   Hopefully a good chunk of that will be on a true medium duty upgrade-class 6, 7.

 

If its the electric van, one wonders what it will be:

 

1. Replacement for E-Series/Brightdrop competitor

2. Something like the Transit Custom. 

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23 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

 

If its the electric van, one wonders what it will be:

 

1. Replacement for E-Series/Brightdrop competitor

2. Something like the Transit Custom. 

Electric van is named in the agreement, Transit Custom sounds most likely but a replacement for the aging Econoline would be nice too.

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7 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Electric van is named in the agreement, Transit Custom sounds most likely but a replacement for the aging Econoline would be nice too.

I doubt we will see a full on  econoline replacement that is an EV before the middle of next decade, due to its needed capacities. The Transit EV can deal with the lower end of the market, but might need more range. 
 

Maybe it will be a Transit Connect EV?

 

I just don’t see the need for anything in the mid range EV wise that the Transit can’t do. 

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51 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

I doubt we will see a full on  econoline replacement that is an EV before the middle of next decade, due to its needed capacities. The Transit EV can deal with the lower end of the market, but might need more range. 
 

Maybe it will be a Transit Connect EV?

 

I just don’t see the need for anything in the mid range EV wise that the Transit can’t do. 

If they build a SWB version of the Transit Custom (194”) , they won’t need Transit Connect (LWB 190”)

Edited by jpd80
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10 hours ago, Footballfan said:

A lot of these investments look more like money being spent for plant upgrades as opposed to major expansions.  I agree $50 million is not a whole lot of money.  I wonder if the $50 million is for routine plant upgrades and  "Pending program approval" will be another major investment down the road?  Ford may not be committing money to something that has not been approved yet. 

2.3 EB PHEV Mustang?

Edited by jpd80

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21 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

2.3 EB PHEV Mustang?

and Ranger....and Bronco.....

 

You know, to help amortize costs.

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I could see the 4 door Mustang, or a different name like Falcon, finally being brought to life.  

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26 minutes ago, twintornados said:

and Ranger....and Bronco.....

 

You know, to help amortize costs.

Not thinking amortisation of the power train, just the costs of changing the plant for the 2.3 PHEV.

The other version rumoured is the hybrid V8…but that is supposed to be 2027.

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My guess for Flat Rock is an s650 version of the Mustang GT500.

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2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

I doubt we will see a full on  econoline replacement that is an EV before the middle of next decade, due to its needed capacities. The Transit EV can deal with the lower end of the market, but might need more range. 
 

Maybe it will be a Transit Connect EV?

 

I just don’t see the need for anything in the mid range EV wise that the Transit can’t do. 

No EV version of either the Ford or VW Transit Connect platforms (yet), but the EV and Hybrid Transit Customs are already engineered and in production. The big Transit's too big to fit under standard 7 foot tall garage doors that a lot of small business Transit buyers have at their homes or shops, creating a market for Transit Custom.

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1 hour ago, slemke said:

My guess for Flat Rock is an s650 version of the Mustang GT500.


That’s not really considered a new program though, it’s an extension of S650. The contract specifically says it’s a new program. 

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GM, UAW Reach Tentative Deal After Weeks of Contract Negotiations

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2023/10/30/gm-uaw-deal-contract-negotiations-update/71334972007/

 

UAW Strike_Picket Line_GM Arlington TX.jpg

 

General Motors and the United Auto Workers have reached a tentative agreement, less than 48 hours after the union struck the automaker's Spring Hill Assembly plant in Tennessee where it produces popular Cadillac SUVs and various engines used in other models across its four brands, the Detroit Free Press has learned.

 

The UAW already has a tentative agreement that it reached with Ford Motor Co. last Wednesday. It reached a deal with Stellantis on Saturday that mirrors the one it has with Ford.

 

Despite marathon bargaining sessions with GM that ran into the early morning hours over the past few days, the two sides had been at a standstill, prompting the union to order the walkout at Spring Hill and ratcheting up the pressure on GM to get a tentative agreement.

Edited by ice-capades
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14 hours ago, Footballfan said:

But Ford agreed to allow the UAW to strike over plant closings.  Not sure the company wants to try to cross that line.

I don’t know what to say about that one. I don’t want to see any ford plant close now or in the future. I just feel like it’s a possibility down the road. Too many players in the marketplace and now potentially Chinese infiltrating N/A market. I will stick to my belief that there will be some form of consolidation of facilities. 

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47 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

GM, UAW Reach Tentative Deal After Weeks of Contract Negotiations

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2023/10/30/gm-uaw-deal-contract-negotiations-update/71334972007/

 

UAW Strike_Picket Line_GM Arlington TX.jpg

 

General Motors and the United Auto Workers have reached a tentative agreement, less than 48 hours after the union struck the automaker's Spring Hill Assembly plant in Tennessee where it produces popular Cadillac SUVs and various engines used in other models across its four brands, the Detroit Free Press has learned.

 

The UAW already has a tentative agreement that it reached with Ford Motor Co. last Wednesday. It reached a deal with Stellantis on Saturday that mirrors the one it has with Ford.

 

Despite marathon bargaining sessions with GM that ran into the early morning hours over the past few days, the two sides had been at a standstill, prompting the union to order the walkout at Spring Hill and ratcheting up the pressure on GM to get a tentative agreement.

It was only a matter of time for GM to reach a tentative agreement. Stellantis did today as well with UNIFOR. 

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6 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


That’s not really considered a new program though, it’s an extension of S650. The contract specifically says it’s a new program. 

And we're probably talking hundreds of millions of dollars more.  $50 million would not be enough for a facelift.

Edited by Footballfan

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21 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

And we're probably talking hundreds of millions of dollars more.  $20 million would not be enough for a facelift.


They probably didn’t include it in the contract because the program is still subject to approval but I’m sure there’s an earmark in the corporate budget somewhere for them to announce when the time comes. 

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15 hours ago, Footballfan said:

A lot of these investments look more like money being spent for plant upgrades as opposed to major expansions.  I agree $50 million is not a whole lot of money.  I wonder if the $50 million is for routine plant upgrades and  "Pending program approval" will be another major investment down the road?  Ford may not be committing money to something that has not been approved yet. 

Exactly. 

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If you think about it the only plant really in danger of closing is flat rock and that’s not happening unless they move Mustang somewhere else.  File this under the category of “not planning to do that anyway” so no harm leaving it in the contract for 4 years.  Fight about that next contract if necessary.

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17 minutes ago, akirby said:

If you think about it the only plant really in danger of closing is flat rock and that’s not happening unless they move Mustang somewhere else.  File this under the category of “not planning to do that anyway” so no harm leaving it in the contract for 4 years.  Fight about that next contract if necessary.

I would have to agree with your assessment. All the shit I’m talking about in regards to plant consolidation means little right now. 

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