New Leader Shifts Lincoln's EV Plans - Lincoln is Expected to Discontinue Gasoline Versions of the Corsair and Aviator, While Its First EV, a Three-Row Crossover, is Expected in Late 2025

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

And the Rivian debacle.

Yep, that's something I never understood, especially when a brand claims that they want to be fiscally efficient when developing their upcoming products. But then they never repurpose things. 

 

Sure, they may have decided not to use Rivian's skateboard platform, but I don't understand why they had to scrap the interior and exterior design when they could stretch one of their own platforms to fit the body. They spent millions of dollars developing the design, apparently came up with something everyone loved, and then scrapped the entire thing. 

 

They keep starting over with no clear direction. 

[akirby]

31 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Yep, that's something I never understood, especially when a brand claims that they want to be fiscally efficient when developing their upcoming products. But then they never repurpose things. 

 

Sure, they may have decided not to use Rivian's skateboard platform, but I don't understand why they had to scrap the interior and exterior design when they could stretch one of their own platforms to fit the body. They spent millions of dollars developing the design, apparently came up with something everyone loved, and then scrapped the entire thing. 

 

They keep starting over with no clear direction. 

I don’t know that they scrapped the design, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the Rivian deal was made by executives without due diligence from engineering, then the engineers ran into technical and/or cost issues and decided to start over on the platform.

[tbone]

It’s unfortunate that Ford has turned Lincoln into such a shit show. They finally get some great products, only two poorly market them, look to terminate them in short order, and then subsequently replace them with vehicles that the general public very well may not be interested in buying.   To get rid of aviator and Corsair by 2025, it’s just plain ridiculous. They could still come out with these Lincoln BEVs in addition to maintaining the ICE based vehicle and actually have something at Lincoln dealerships that all people want to buy.  It’s such a ridiculous situation.  

[akirby]

The only way I see them killing Aviator or Corsair is if they are converting the factories to BEV and that doesn’t make sense so soon for both Chicago and Louisville.

[joseodiaga4]

6 hours ago, tbone said:

It’s unfortunate that Ford has turned Lincoln into such a shit show. They finally get some great products, only two poorly market them, look to terminate them in short order, and then subsequently replace them with vehicles that the general public very well may not be interested in buying.   To get rid of aviator and Corsair by 2025, it’s just plain ridiculous. They could still come out with these Lincoln BEVs in addition to maintaining the ICE based vehicle and actually have something at Lincoln dealerships that all people want to buy.  It’s such a ridiculous situation.  

yeah, very unfortunate. Lincoln is totally shit show. They have great products but nobody knows about it. I cannot understand how brands like Acura sell more than Lincoln having inferior products. The management at Lincoln really sucks.

And the Rivian debacle  

I don't really understand how the play to make it live with such a small lineup. They need both ICE and EV Aviator and Corsair IMO. They should explore also other segments like Coupe-Suvs like other luxury brands (Mercedes Benz, BMW, eve Genesis is getting into it). 

47 minutes ago, akirby said:

The only way I see them killing Aviator or Corsair is if they are converting the factories to BEV and that doesn’t make sense so soon for both Chicago and Louisville.

it doesn't male any sense but it is Ford, they kinda do nonsense things lately

[joseodiaga4]

21 hours ago, akirby said:

That’s a shame because the latest models are best in class.  We looked at most other luxury brands and we preferred the Nautilus over all the rest npby a wide margin.  I guess we’ll keep our 22 for a long time.

agreed but the real problem is that nobody gets to know it or care because all the bad work in the marketing department 

21 hours ago, Willwll313wll said:

Sooo this doesn't sound too different from what we all expected right?

 

Redesigned Navigator coming next year

"Aviator EV" going into production late 2025 so we'll likely see that as well next year, no need for ICE Aviator by then hopefully so makes sense to discontinue

Huge grain of salt but hasn't it been rumored that Lincoln is getting a Mach E size-ish EV? That would  give good reason to discontinue the ICE Corsair. Could be revealed around the time the Corsair leaves.

2024 Nautilus already revealed.

 

Hopefully Lincoln is working on a halo model as well. That could be on the horizon, and wouldn't be leaked to autonews.

 

But yes, the investment in Lincoln has been disappointing, and unclear lately.

 

Lincoln is supposed to get a Mach E-size EV but I don't know anymore. As you say, very disappointing investment and management of the brand 

20 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Hasn't been that way for almost 15-20 years? LOL

yeah, at least 15-20 years of this! 

[ice-capades]

I'm not counting on much but it's possible that we'll know better once the next UAW contract is in place and information related to the new contract is revealed. Ford routinely holds back information on future product plans and plant production commitments as part of the negotiation process.   

[Bellanca]

I was contemplating their first BEV to replace my Aviator but it’s a little frustrating to see little to no news, on the other hand I’m not a fan of when Ford shows a product two years before it’ll be available. Hopefully when they do show it it’s something truly remarkable. H/K seems to be churning out a new car every other week meanwhile Ford/Lincoln just seem to be complacent. 

[paintguy]

On 8/28/2023 at 7:35 AM, tbone said:

When are they suggesting they are discontinuing ICE models?

Edge and Nautilus are made at Oakville plant. These are being discontinued as OAP becomes a BEV facility as announced. No plant has been identified to produce these models.

[Oac98]

2 hours ago, paintguy said:

Edge and Nautilus are made at Oakville plant. These are being discontinued as OAP becomes a BEV facility as announced. No plant has been identified to produce these models.

Also Escape, Corsair and Transit connect 

[akirby]

2 hours ago, Bellanca said:

H/K seems to be churning out a new car every other week meanwhile Ford/Lincoln just seem to be complacent. 

Of course they are because they don’t have pickup trucks or vans or large SUVs or commercial vehicles like Ford Pro.  And I’m sure their Asian markets provide a lot more volume.

 

Every mfr is not in the same position relative to the type of products they sell and markets in which they compete well.

[akirby]

13 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

Also Escape, Corsair and Transit connect 

Has any of that been confirmed though?

[rperez817]

5 hours ago, joseodiaga4 said:

The management at Lincoln really sucks.

 

Dianne Craig, the "new leader" mentioned in the OP, isn't helping matters based on what she said to Automotive News back in April.

Despite the industry's pivot to EVs, Craig said gasoline-powered and hybrid models will continue to play an important role for the brand.

"As much as we're finally seeing EVs take off, we've been talking about it for 20 years," she said. "And for as many entries that came in, it was never more than 1 or 2 percent of the industry. But 75 percent of customers are still choosing gas or hybrids. Take the next few years, it only goes from 75 down to 65. For the foreseeable future, we're going to see the majority of folks still going for gas and hybrids."

The 2024 Lincoln Nautilus crossover is an example of the type of product that Craig and other executives hope lead the brand to a sales rebound.

 

 

[silvrsvt]

14 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Yep, that's something I never understood, especially when a brand claims that they want to be fiscally efficient when developing their upcoming products. But then they never repurpose things. 

 

Sure, they may have decided not to use Rivian's skateboard platform, but I don't understand why they had to scrap the interior and exterior design when they could stretch one of their own platforms to fit the body. They spent millions of dollars developing the design, apparently came up with something everyone loved, and then scrapped the entire thing. 

 

They keep starting over with no clear direction. 

Maybe because they don’t have a platform that they could repurpose for that effort. Using an ICE platform would hobble it. 
 

I’m thinking the Rivian thing was more about them actually being able to produce the products for Lincoln. They still have having production issues as far as I know. 

[Rick73]

36 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Dianne Craig, the "new leader" mentioned in the OP, isn't helping matters based on what she said to Automotive News back in April.

 

 

 

 

Her statement is similar to what Farley has been saying lately.  Given when she was promoted, is it surprising?  If she had a very different view on transition, would she have been given the job?  I doubt ir.

[Oac98]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Has any of that been confirmed though?

Seen it on various media outlets. 

[akirby]

15 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

Seen it on various media outlets. 

Which means nothing.  Then again neither does anything Ford says lately.

Edited August 29, 2023 by akirby

[rperez817]

55 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

Her statement is similar to what Farley has been saying lately.  Given when she was promoted, is it surprising? 

 

Good point Rick73. It's not surprising. But it is very sad that both Craig at Lincoln and Farley at the parent company appear to be slipping back into the "old world" of the automotive industry and some of Ford's own past bad habits. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by rperez817

[Oac98]

Exactly, I totally agree

[rmc523]

5 hours ago, ice-capades said:

I'm not counting on much but it's possible that we'll know better once the next UAW contract is in place and information related to the new contract is revealed. Ford routinely holds back information on future product plans and plant production commitments as part of the negotiation process.   

 

This is actually a great point that I didn't consider.

 

They'll use it as a bone to "give back" to the unions of "well, we were going to cancel it, but we're so generous, we'll go ahead and make the new one after all!!  Look at this new product/production we added!!!"

Edited August 29, 2023 by rmc523

[Rick73]

22 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Good point Rick73. It's not surprising. But it is very sad that both Craig at Lincoln and Farley at the parent company appear to be slipping back into the "old world" of the automotive industry and some of Ford's own past bad habits. 

Yeah, there is some backpedaling from Ford, but not unexpected since the primary responsibility of a cooperation is to turn a profit, or else risk going out of business.  Ford is in a tough spot due to BEVs not being profitable yet, and needing ICE sales more than ever to fund BEV losses.  I don’t know, maybe Ford expected transition to be so fast that ICE vehicles would not need much more investment.  Since adoption rate has been slower than some anticipated, what choice does Ford really have but to update ICE vehicles, and also offer more hybrid options buyers may be willing to purchase?  I know proceeding too slowly can also be risky, but electrifying at a cautious rate may be a good middle ground.

 

I don’t know if Ford can compete with Toyota, Honda and Hyundai/Kia with affordable 50 MPG hybrids, but they should at least try in my opinion.

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Maybe because they don’t have a platform that they could repurpose for that effort. Using an ICE platform would hobble it. 
 

I’m thinking the Rivian thing was more about them actually being able to produce the products for Lincoln. They still have having production issues as far as I know. 

Couldn't Ford just modify one of their skateboard EV platforms to accommodate it? Not super easy to do. But it wouldn't be super hard or expensive either with how flexible these upcoming Ev platforms are supposed to be. 

[akirby]

14 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Couldn't Ford just modify one of their skateboard EV platforms to accommodate it? Not super easy to do. But it wouldn't be super hard or expensive either with how flexible these upcoming Ev platforms are supposed to be. 

The next Gen dedicated BEV platforms are still in development.  Mach-E and Lightning are modified ICE platforms and Europe is VW based.

[silvrsvt]

39 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

Yeah, there is some backpedaling from Ford, but not unexpected since the primary responsibility of a cooperation is to turn a profit, or else risk going out of business.  Ford is in a tough spot due to BEVs not being profitable yet, and needing ICE sales more than ever to fund BEV losses.  I don’t know, maybe Ford expected transition to be so fast that ICE vehicles would not need much more investment.  Since adoption rate has been slower than some anticipated, what choice does Ford really have but to update ICE vehicles, and also offer more hybrid options buyers may be willing to purchase?  I know proceeding too slowly can also be risky, but electrifying at a cautious rate may be a good middle ground.

 

I don’t know if Ford can compete with Toyota, Honda and Hyundai/Kia with affordable 50 MPG hybrids, but they should at least try in my opinion.

How much back peddling can be actually done when 2028MY products are being planned/worked on at the moment?

 

anything between now and 2027 has been already planned for a while now. It takes time to get supply chain geared up and the past few years has completely fucked that up. 
 

plus where is their cheap hybrid pickup that Ford offers already? 

[rmc523]

44 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Couldn't Ford just modify one of their skateboard EV platforms to accommodate it? Not super easy to do. But it wouldn't be super hard or expensive either with how flexible these upcoming Ev platforms are supposed to be. 

 

Ford doesn't have a skateboard platform at present.  So not at the moment.  But going forward, it would make sense.