BlackHorse Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) I just don't get it, like MFT/MLT, I'm convinced nobody is actually driving their cars before signing off on them. You would be wrong. My car didn't have any problems until after I owned it for awhile. It was smooth at first aside from the lunging at low end which I attributed to the normal performance of the dual clutch and I was willing to overlook it. But then the nosiy rattles when it shifts started and the shuddering started and now the car is just annoying to drive at all. Furthermore I went back and test drove two brand new Focus cars on the lot and neither of them exhibted the problems that mine has. Edited October 28, 2011 by BlackHorse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I'm not convinced that it ever really improved. I totaly disagree. No doubt almost every model has areas of common issues, some big, some very minor. However, Looking at 2000-2005 vs 2006-2011, huge difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I'm in a position to know everyone around this area. My town is small at 175 people, but I know all 1000 people in the are, but you're right, I don't know everything that goes on with their vehicles. I do know about the F-150s in my own town though. We had a Buick that was crap too. All 3 Chrysler LX cars that we've owned have performed very well. I know, statistically Ford has better quality. I'm just frustrated because I haven't seen it. I mean: 1995 Windstar - Computer....3 times 1998 Windstar - Computer....2 times 1998 Taurus Wagon - Computer, and something else I can't remember 1998 F-150 - best truck every, not a single problem other than some corroding hoses. 2005 F-150 - all the interior lights were buying out, and the transmission slammed into every gear....they couldn't fix it. 2008 Ford Explorer - front end went twice, the seat broke, and the door wouldn't stop rattling no matter how many times I opened it up. 2010 F-150 - the rear end needs work, it's shaking at idle for some reason (it's gotten better with the cold), and both front doors have terrible rattles that suddenly appeared. 2011 Fiesta - rattling door....hopefully that's it. Used Fords I have owned... 1993 Tempo - one issue - faulty power door lock on drivers side. 2000 Sable - one issue - front bumper paint was flaking... repainted 2002 Mountaineer - one issue needed new front ABS sensor. New Fords I have owned... 2005 Explorer - 0 issues 2008 Fusion - 0 issues 2011 Escape - 1 issue - steering wheel was off a little to the left when driving straight down the road - Dealership re-aligned under warranty and is now perfect. I guess we all have had different experiences... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 You would be wrong. My car didn't have any problems until after I owned it for awhile. It was smooth at first aside from the lunging at low end which I attributed to the normal performance of the dual clutch and I was willing to overlook it. But then the nosiy rattles when it shifts started and the shuddering started and now the car is just annoying to drive at all. Furthermore I went back and test drove two brand new Focus cars on the lot and neither of them exhibted the problems that mine has. There's something kooky going on during wear in as the wet clutch versions on Euro diesels have absolutely no problems. Why they didn't just use that is beyond me......(yeah, I know, cost) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) Used Fords I have owned... 1993 Tempo - one issue - faulty power door lock on drivers side. 2000 Sable - one issue - front bumper paint was flaking... repainted 2002 Mountaineer - one issue needed new front ABS sensor. New Fords I have owned... 2005 Explorer - 0 issues 2008 Fusion - 0 issues 2011 Escape - 1 issue - steering wheel was off a little to the left when driving straight down the road - Dealership re-aligned under warranty and is now perfect. I guess we all have had different experiences... 1986 Escort - 22,000 flawless miles 1989 Tempo - 214K miles. Fuel pump replaced under warranty at 31K 1993 Thunderbird 5.0L - 116K miles. Right side window motor replaced at 100K 1997 Thunderbird 3.8L - 118K miles. Dog peed in the seat (only issue) 1998 F-150 - 66K miles Trans replaced under warranty at 18K (truck is still running around my small town) 2001 Taurus - 136K miles. Drivers window motor replaced at 102K 2001 F-150 - 65K miles. No issues 2004 F-250 - 96K miles (and counting). No issues 2005 Five Hundred 133K miles (and counting). No issues As my list shows, I've owned 2 time bombs (Tempo and 3.8L) and had no issues. I guess that Irish blood counts for something. Edited October 28, 2011 by 351cid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Why they didn't just use that is beyond me......(yeah, I know, cost) Fuel Economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Fuel Economy. The wet clutch DSC is no worse on fuel economy, dry clutch is much cheaper to produce... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 The wet clutch DSC is no worse on fuel economy, dry clutch is much cheaper to produce... I don't doubt that it's cheaper, but I thought I read that it was also more fuel efficient, which makes sense if it's smaller and lighter with no fluid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtion Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Did you read the article? There is a fix, apparently a re-programming of how the clutches take up and release. Call your dealer. Sure am glad Mr Ed that you never had any serious problems with your car buys...I'd love to read your story if you were to wear the shoe on the other foot....By the way, *NO FIX* is what I got from the Ford dealership today, so what should or could I do here Ed...?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 By the way, *NO FIX* is what I got from the Ford dealership today, so what should or could I do here Ed...?? I'd see if someone who works for a dealership (on here) could pull the TSB or whatever that Ford put out to reprogram the transmission, then take it down to the dealership to show them as proof. I'm sure its the dealership (and maybe a lack of education on their part) and not Ford itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpatrick90 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Sure am glad Mr Ed that you never had any serious problems with your car buys...I'd love to read your story if you were to wear the shoe on the other foot....By the way, *NO FIX* is what I got from the Ford dealership today, so what should or could I do here Ed...?? Go to a better service department... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Sure am glad Mr Ed that you never had any serious problems with your car buys...I'd love to read your story if you were to wear the shoe on the other foot....By the way, *NO FIX* is what I got from the Ford dealership today, so what should or could I do here Ed...?? Here are a few options: 1) Stop complaining 2) Stop being melodramatic 3) Stop whining 4) Trade your car in on something else 5) Give the car to me and you continue to make the payments 6) ??? 6b) Drive the car to it's break-in period 7) All of the above except #4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) Fordtion, I imagine you realize the idea that dealer = Ford is not true, right? Ford has almost nothing to do with what your dealer is doing. (Sure, I get that from a consumer's standpoint, whomever they deal with IS the company). But, I'm sure you've encountered lazy, stupid, inept, apathetic, clueless, uncaring, uneducated, poorly-trained, inexperienced, mean-spirited and/or confused people in many, many instances in your life, right? It might occur to you one (or all) of the people at your dealer have some (or all) of these characteristics. Maybe Ford dropped the ball and didn't communicate the TSB or the situation to your dealer (anything's possible). Maybe the service manager at your dealer had bowling last night, went on a massive bender and came in today ready to go back to bed. Who the hell knows? The point is, first maybe try to escalate the issue at your dealer. If the person behind the desk or that answered the phone couldn't help you, maybe they weren't in a position to. (Sometimes, I've encountered situations where those folks are essentially "schedulers" who don't anything about an oil change beyond "they change the oil, whatever that is"). Talk to someone else. If that doesn't work, go to another dealer! Good Lord, it's not like the one person you talked to was Alan Mulally himself telling you "no". Be assertive and employ some critical thinking. Edited October 28, 2011 by BrewfanGRB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 That has usually been my experience at VW dealerships...in fact, back in 2001-2003 they would see me on a weekly basis...but I remember the first few times i had to go ghetto on them to wake them up a bit. At that point, i had about every number required to get issues fixed. At times, i thought I had one issue fixed, and then they would break another just to see my lovely presence the week after. It became a great love-hate relationship, but nothing they hate more than seeing you time and time again complain about the same problem. After that, I swore to my friends I would never help them with another VW problem. My favorite line "but thats how it is".... "OH, you mean the smell of moldy coffin is how the interior is suppose to smell?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 As I have stated, more than once, I frequent many automotive websites. This includes two of the largest truck centric websites in existance.................... and they both happen to be Ford sites. These sites not only cover every year of Ford truck, but they cover every model, and even break down to every engine. The 2009+ F150's have had a few minor issues that some have complained about. One site has 627,104 registered users, and the other one has 185,811. Now, one would think that with all of those people, if every 2009+ F150 had serious issues, that there would be 100+ page threads about it. Yet, there are a few threads here and there, about a few issues. They are by no means commonplace. BTW, FYI, if the 5 trucks in your town had the low speed shudder issue, it is one of 2 things..................... and neither one of those is fixed by replacing the rear end. It is either a trans issue that was an early adopter problem, or an axle wrap issue that shows up most often in the longer wheelbase trucks. That is, those trucks that are long beds, or 6.5' bed CC's/SC's. It has taken a while for the shudder issue to be diagnosed, as it is so sporadic, and most trucks do not exhibit the problem. As for Fords quality over the years........................... remember this. Todays vehicles have 10X the features and doo dads that trucks of just 5 years ago have. They have so much more power and capability, and a 1/2 ton truck today will be used harder than a 3/4 ton truck of just 5 years ago. Yet, overall reliability has continued to improve, year over year. Is any truck perfect?? Of course not, nor will it ever be. There will always be those certain ones that are troublesome. However, your chances of getting one of those has gone down and down over the years. So, one has to ask the question................................ if every Ford that someone has bought, has been nothing but a flaming pile of poo, then why do they continue to buy them?? It is obvious that the only glass said person is going to get, from Ford, is going to be half empty, or worse. I guess it is time to move on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atvman Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I'm convinced that the DCT problem is half Ford's fault and half the consumer's fault. This is a non-issue in Europe, where DCTs are common. I'm guessing that the Euro version and U.S. version are tuned differently, the Euro version being tuned like a normal DCT and the U.S. version being tuned to simulate a conventional automatic. If Ford would have just left the Euro tune in there and told consumers that it's just how a DCT is supposed to feel, they would be getting a lot less criticism, especially from the press. They may have lost some customers, but I'm not sure they wouldn't have picked up new customers who actually like the feel of a good DCT. Does anybody else find it interesting that nobody complains about VW's DSG transmission when it feels and operates like one is supposed to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I'm convinced that the DCT problem is half Ford's fault and half the consumer's fault. This is a non-issue in Europe, where DCTs are common. I'm guessing that the Euro version and U.S. version are tuned differently, the Euro version being tuned like a normal DCT and the U.S. version being tuned to simulate a conventional automatic. If Ford would have just left the Euro tune in there and told consumers that it's just how a DCT is supposed to feel, they would be getting a lot less criticism, especially from the press. They may have lost some customers, but I'm not sure they wouldn't have picked up new customers who actually like the feel of a good DCT. Does anybody else find it interesting that nobody complains about VW's DSG transmission when it feels and operates like one is supposed to? The Euro DSGs are all wet-clutch. This appears to be a dry-clutch issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 As I have stated, more than once, I frequent many automotive websites. This includes two of the largest truck centric websites in existance.................... and they both happen to be Ford sites. These sites not only cover every year of Ford truck, but they cover every model, and even break down to every engine. The 2009+ F150's have had a few minor issues that some have complained about. One site has 627,104 registered users, and the other one has 185,811. Now, one would think that with all of those people, if every 2009+ F150 had serious issues, that there would be 100+ page threads about it. Yet, there are a few threads here and there, about a few issues. They are by no means commonplace. BTW, FYI, if the 5 trucks in your town had the low speed shudder issue, it is one of 2 things..................... and neither one of those is fixed by replacing the rear end. It is either a trans issue that was an early adopter problem, or an axle wrap issue that shows up most often in the longer wheelbase trucks. That is, those trucks that are long beds, or 6.5' bed CC's/SC's. It has taken a while for the shudder issue to be diagnosed, as it is so sporadic, and most trucks do not exhibit the problem. As for Fords quality over the years........................... remember this. Todays vehicles have 10X the features and doo dads that trucks of just 5 years ago have. They have so much more power and capability, and a 1/2 ton truck today will be used harder than a 3/4 ton truck of just 5 years ago. Yet, overall reliability has continued to improve, year over year. Is any truck perfect?? Of course not, nor will it ever be. There will always be those certain ones that are troublesome. However, your chances of getting one of those has gone down and down over the years. So, one has to ask the question................................ if every Ford that someone has bought, has been nothing but a flaming pile of poo, then why do they continue to buy them?? It is obvious that the only glass said person is going to get, from Ford, is going to be half empty, or worse. I guess it is time to move on. If you do visit these sites then I am sure you are well aware of the leaking transmissions in the 2011 Ford F150's... Seems pretty serious and has affected many people and many have had to return the vehicle several time with no resolution.... http://www.f150forum.com/f38/2011-f150-transmission-leak-build-date-4-15-11-6-8-11-a-107977/ I am as big of a Ford fan as anyone, but IMHO, their quality is slipping at an alarming rate... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I am not at all convinced of Ford's apparent quality gains. Every F-150 around here has had multiple problems. Rushed production and excessive use of Chinese parts... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Why is this happening in 2011? My Mk1 Escort and Capri are both coming up to being 40 years old the manual stick gearboxes are still as smooth as silk (One of the great selling points in its day), and have both been totally trouble free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I'd see if someone who works for a dealership (on here) could pull the TSB or whatever that Ford put out to reprogram the transmission, then take it down to the dealership to show them as proof. I'm sure its the dealership (and maybe a lack of education on their part) and not Ford itself. I don't work for a dealership, but here ya go anyway. TSB11-10-2 CALIBRATION UPDATE - AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION/ENGINE DRIVABILITY IMPROVEMENTS, AMBIENT TEMPERATURE DISPLAY - BUILT ON OR BEFORE 8/12/2011Publication Date: October 2, 2011 FORD:2012 Focus This article supersedes TSBs 11-5-11, 11-7-22 and 11-9-5 to consolidate previously released articles, updated Title, Issue Statement and Service Procedure. ISSUE: Some 2012 Focus vehicles built on or before 8/12/2011 may exhibit the following engine drivability and/or automatic transmission concerns; RPM flare on deceleration coming to a stop, rough idle on deceleration coming to a stop, intermittent engine idle fluctuations at a stop, intermittent vehicle speed control inoperative, intermittent harsh engagement/shift, engine no-start with engine coolant temperature (ECT) open circuit faults and intermittent no-crank/no-start condition after performing normal Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) pinpoint test (PPT) diagnostic procedures. The vehicle may also exhibit diagnostic trouble codes (DTC) U0422, P00D2, P068A, P0850, P2610, P2832, P286F or P2877. The vehicle may also exhibit intermittent false initialization to 21 °C (70 °F) on the instrument cluster's ambient temperature display upon engine start up. ACTION: Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition. SERVICE PROCEDURE Reprogram the powertrain control module (PCM) and transmission control module (TCM) to the latest calibration using IDS release 75.02 and higher. This new calibration is not included in the VCM 2011.9 DVD. Calibration files may also be obtained at www.motorcraft.com. Perform Transmission Adaptive Learning. Refer to Workshop Manual, Section 307-01 General Procedures. NOTE:REPROGRAMMING PCM AND TCM WITH LOW VEHICLE BATTERY VOLTAGE AND/OR LOW IDS BATTERY VOLTAGE MAY RESULT IN A BLANKED PCM AND/OR TCM. NOTE:THE PCM AND TCM ARE A MATCHED SET. PROGRAMMING THE PCM WILL AUTOMATICALLY UPDATE THE TCM. NOTE:PLEASE ADVISE THE CUSTOMER THAT THIS VEHICLE IS EQUIPPED WITH AN ADAPTIVE TRANSMISSION SHIFT STRATEGY WHICH ALLOWS THE VEHICLE'S COMPUTER TO LEARN THE TRANSMISSION'S UNIQUE PARAMETERS AND IMPROVE SHIFT QUALITY. WHEN THE ADAPTIVE STRATEGY IS RESET, THE COMPUTER WILL BEGIN A RE-LEARNING PROCESS. THIS RE-LEARNING PROCESS MAY RESULT IN FIRMER THAN NORMAL UPSHIFTS AND DOWNSHIFTS FOR SEVERAL DAYS. WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage And Emissions Warranty Coverage IMPORTANT: Warranty coverage limits/policies are not altered by a TSB. Warranty coverage limits are determined by the identified causal part. OPERATIONDESCRIPTIONTIME111002A2012 Focus Automatic Transmission (DPS6): Reprogram The PCM And TCM Includes Time To Perform Adaptive Learning And Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations)1.1 Hrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) Don't tell those that keep spouting off about Ford doing nothing to fix the problems (**cough**BORG**cough**). Those complaining of such issues haven't said Ford isn't working on the issue. The complaint has been more about releasing a product with known issues and blaming it on the driving style or the user. While customers may be disappointed that the Powershift didn't operate as well as expected, I'm sure that a lot are prepared to give the reprogram a go and see how it works there will be sum that will wipe Ford and buy another brand but by and large, the dry clutch Powershift should settle in and operate just as effectively as its wet clutch sibling does with diesel and Ecoboost applications. If the transmission was truly bad, the Europeans would have roared from high heaven about it. I think most would be willing to accept a reprogramming. I think the biggest issue is the consumer simply being told "that's how it's supposed to work". Now that Ford is coming out with a TSB, Ford has admitted fault and correcting an issue that they once said wasn't an issue. Edited October 28, 2011 by V8-X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) Heard others say that in Austrailia and Europe, there are no complaints and just American drivers used to slushbox automatics. Anyway, it's not 'unreliable', since cars are not breaking down leaving people stranded. Just annoyance and people going 'OMG'. The cars just need to be programmed for stop and go American traffic. I had a few 4 speed automatics that would shudder if in heavy traffic or running stops, but the fuzzy logic in PCM would compensate. I test drove a new Focus this week and it drove fine, dealer says they are working on pre-August cars. To me I think its buyers who traded in a Honda/Toyota, and now panicing saying "Why did I buy American!, it's gonna fall apart!" But it's a European design and not a slushbox 4 speed in a Corolla. Point is people are freaking out as if cars are falling apart, but there is a "fix" now. It's sort of like the panic about Toyota's "sudden acceleration". Edited October 28, 2011 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Yeah, I'm as analytical as they come and put my trust in statistically reliable data rather than anecdotes, but if I were you, I probably would be hard-pressed to convince myself to buy another Ford, too. I guess I'd say anything that happened before 2008 is prior to the "new age of Ford improvment", so the Windstars and the Taurus can be chalked to "eh, whatever". But, the 2010 F-150's gotta be concerning. Building the vehicles "tighter" with just better build quality overall is supposed to be a hallmark of Ford's improvements and the rattling doors have got to be annoying on the individual level. Hypothesis: After years of fleeing customers, the only people who purchased Fords are those who love the company and its history, or are economically tied to it. Perhaps these people didn't want to criticize company on surveys? Further, would their desire to improve the public's perception of Ford not make them more likely to turn in their glowing surveys, leading to a response bias? The statistics would then faithfully extract the reported lies of the respondents. I don't have any evidence to support this, and I hope not. I do have a fair bit of money riding on Ford's success, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 LMAO!....speaking for myself i prefer the Senoritas..... Dammit I completely missed the joke Spelling has never been my strong suite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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