mettech Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Volvo just announced at the Detroit Auto Show that they will only have 4 bangers in their new cars.... Can you imagine a few years ago that a lux auto maker will only have 4 cylinder engines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) I'm dealing with knowns Yeah, but your conclusions insofar as I can understand them, are insupportable. Edited January 9, 2012 by RichardJensen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) First of all, 3 of the first 5 definitions for "Fusion" at freedictionary.com involve physics, chemistry, and/or energy output...so I don't know what you're basing your logic on, but it appears the more energy-related definitions (also the top 2 of 3) seen to take precedence. As a musician, I'm all for the jazz/fusion thing...but never, ever remember Ford specifying your definition. As to the other...you're dealing with speculation, I'm dealing with knowns. I can't believe people are determined to just ignore 40 hp lost, and think it's odd when others of us mourn it. Gosh, car guys liking power...so odd! (cough) Or perhaps you could acknowledge that the vast majority of consumers today are more concerned with fuel economy than with maximum power and that the new Fusion represents a HUGE step forward in that area. Do you honestly think the Camry and Accord are going to continue with V6s when all of the new midsize family sedans are ditching them in favor of better fuel economy? Edit: It's ok to be impressed by the new vehicle and what it means to the market and at the same time be personally disappointed. They're not mutually exclusive. Edited January 9, 2012 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 A wagon and a hatch version of the Fusion will look amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Volvo just announced at the Detroit Auto Show that they will only have 4 bangers in their new cars.... Can you imagine a few years ago that a lux auto maker will only have 4 cylinder engines? The problem with most luxury car makers is they aren't full line manufactures and can't meet CAFE... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Or perhaps you could acknowledge that the vast majority of consumers today are more concerned with fuel economy than with maximum power and that the new Fusion represents a HUGE step forward in that area. Do you honestly think the Camry and Accord are going to continue with V6s when all of the new midsize family sedans are ditching them in favor of better fuel economy? Edit: It's ok to be impressed by the new vehicle and what it means to the market and at the same time be personally disappointed. They're not mutually exclusive. First off, not sure where this "down 40hp" number is coming from. The present 3.0 Fusion has about 240hp I believe, and the EB 2.0 237hp with a much wider torque band. I read the PDF spec sheet on 2013 Fusion EB 2.0, and Ford estimates a 0-60 time of 7.0 seconds and I would imagine C&D test crew will beat that number by a decen margin. I believe the Fusion Sport has something like 265hp and is not much faster than EB2.0 which results in lighter car. From what I have seen on dealer lots, I don't believe the Fusion Sport has been a huge sales success. I would expect a 2013 or 2014 Fusion ST to have about 40-50 hp more than present 237hp EB, and about 40hp less than maximum hp MKZ. So a Fusion Titianium EB 2.0 doing 0-60 in about 6.8 and Fusion ST doing it in 5.8 would be competitive in this market. And don't forget Ford has already stated that the new Fusion has a better suspension and thus handles better than present Fusion. I've always felt that handling and braking are more important than straight line performance. Straight line performance only is for suckers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 From what I have seen on dealer lots, I don't believe the Fusion Sport has been a huge sales success The Fusion Sport only makes up 5-10% total sales of the Fusion..the vast majority of them are daily drivers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 It didn't seem to kill the Mustang in 2005 when there was no initial offering above the GT, and that had a decidedly more performance-oriented audience than the Fusion. :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) It didn't seem to kill the Mustang in 2005 when there was no initial offering above the GT, and that had a decidedly more performance-oriented audience than the Fusion. :shrug: There was no Fusion Sport when the it was first introduced either. Neither was there CTS-V... Or a Camaro Z28.... If I'm not mistaken the BMW M cars always lag behind after a redesign. It's a very common occurrence so I don't know what all the bitching is about. Edited January 9, 2012 by TomServo92 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 The interior of this new Fusion is vastly improved. I think that alone might help the sales numbers a lot. I'm still just not feeling it with the respect to the new body design. It's not bad but its just not grabbing me either. But then again, most cars in this segement are sort of middle of the road as it were. I can still see that Ford is going to get ribbed for taking the tail lights off of a Hyundai and the headlights off of a Lancer and mixing it with the grill of a Focus. It will probably continue to be a good seller overall. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 No one discussed an ST Focus at first either, but that is coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 It's a very common occurrence so I don't know what all the bitching is about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) To a point I have to agree with Zantwork, why I have to shell out thousands more for a zany model with tack on bodywork and gimmicks for performance when I just want a bigger motor with reasonable performance and fuel economy for not much more the the standard 4 banger?. Edited January 9, 2012 by Fgts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 While the spec sheet fan boys whine about 'no V6 or 400HP Fusion', Ford will sell many new 2013 models to paying customers who want efficiency, quality, utility and daily driving dynamics. Not all new car buyers demand 12 second 1/4 times and expect 'muscle cars'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Well IMO, 80 % of existing Fusion buyers will be delighted with increased fuel economy and added low end torque, I have the feeling that genuine buyers grumbling about no V6 will be in the extreme minority, something GM caters for... I think the added focus on increased fuel economy with new hybrids is where the game now is anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Top engine is the 2.0L Ecoboost with 237 HP, ouch...Sonata is already pumping out 270...with it's I4, and every other one is already hitting 260+ easily..Camry, Mazda6, etc. Either they are lying or Ford is sandbagging... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 To a point I have to agree with Zantwork, why I have to shell out thousands more for a zany model with tack on bodywork and gimmicks for performance when I just want a bigger motor with reasonable performance and fuel economy for not much more the the standard 4 banger. You don't have to do that. You can always go buy something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 While the spec sheet fan boys whine about 'no V6 or 400HP Fusion', Ford will sell many new 2013 models to paying customers who want efficiency, quality, utility and daily driving dynamics. Not all new car buyers demand 12 second 1/4 times and expect 'muscle cars'. Its the same no matter which brand of fanboy you are talking about. There are guys that are just all upset because the current Civic Si doesn't have as much hp as some of the competition and they didn't do enough during the last refresh and blah blah blah. Meanwhile the Civic was still the 2nd best selling car in its segment last month. Those sort of halo cars or ST this or that get a lot of press, but they don't get a lot of buyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Either they are lying or Ford is sandbagging... Ford has tuned their engine for fuel economy gains, while keeping good drivability. The Sonata has been tuned with high performance in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) To a point I have to agree with Zantwork, why I have to shell out thousands more for a zany model with tack on bodywork and gimmicks for performance when I just want a bigger motor with reasonable performance and fuel economy for not much more the the standard 4 banger?. Look. If ~6.4 seconds 0-60* ain't doing it for you (2.0LEB, based on 7.5 sec. 0-60 on 4,000lb Edge), you don't just need a vehicle with a more powerful engine. You need a vehicle that has been tuned for performance. Ford has, ever since SVO, avoided the 'insert bigger engine, add stiffer shocks' recipe for performance models. Every performance model since the SVO has been tuned thoroughly for performance. You want "bigger engine, same crappy everything else" go buy a Neon SRT4. *Math: Assume identical tune, identical transmission, therefore only meaningful difference 0-60 is vehicle mass; Fusion roughly 17% lighter than Edge--700lbs. Multiply Edge 0-60 time by .83 for 6.225. Add 10% of the decrease (.1275 seconds) to the estimated 0-60 time to account for 'whatever', and get 6.3525 seconds 0-60, or ~6.4 seconds Edited January 9, 2012 by RichardJensen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Complaining about lack of "performance" engine option at this point is crazy 2.0 Ecoboost will for sure out perform the outgoing 3.0 V6 and probably the 3.5 V6 in Fusion. And if someone mentions Hyundai Sonata again, we'll just let the real life facts do the talking. Sonata Turbo's 270 horsepower is highly overrated. The car has trouble scooting from 0 to 60 under 7 seconds (source: MT - http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1112_2011_hyundai_sonata_se_vs_2012_toyota_camry_se_vs_2012_volkswagen_passat_vr6_sel_comparison/viewall.html ). Ford Edge 2.0 Ecoboost is faster to 60mph than Sonata and it weights several hundred pounds more. Fusion 2.0 Ecoboost will run rings around the Sonata Turbo. I like Ford's "conservative" stated horsepower of 237 hp... it stays under the radar. I'm willing to bet real money that it is significantly understated like Audi's 2.0T engine, which is stated at only 211hp - Yet performance numbers and dyno tests have showed that it is putting down close to 200 at the wheels (which implies the crank horsepower should be reall around 265 hp factor in a 25% driveline loss). Edited January 9, 2012 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) The knuckle draggers who think car companies are supposed to "entertain them with dream cars" need to move on. Cash paying car buyers are who decides what sells, not fan boys "dreaming" of new muscle cars, but never actauly buy brand new. Sure, Ford will have an ST model to stoke the fire, but more important is to get Camry trade ins to beat Toyota. Get over the 1999 V6 HP race, done, gone, by-by! Edited January 9, 2012 by 630land 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I think this HP war got a little out of hand. Every car can now go 0-60 in less than 6.5 seconds and even the Camry can do it in the 5 sec range. There is no reason to get a Mustang if in 2 years a Fiesta will be able to blow your doors off. At this rate, in 5 years, a Lamborghini will loose a race to a Nissan Altima! It reminds me of the movie, "The Incredibles" when Syndrome wanted to give the whole world superpowers because as he said, "If everybody is super, then no one is." Kudos to Ford if they find a new way to distinguish themselves in the car market. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Either they are lying or Ford is sandbagging... considering there is strong internal lobbying for a certain 3.5 eco model with a different ( read BEEFED up ) transmission and twin VCT ala F-150, dont be surprized if...................................................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 It's possible that the EB 2.0L will outperform the 3.5L Fusion Sport in 0-60 and possibly even the quarter mile. I expect that it will handily outperform the outgoing model in every other performance metric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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