jpd80 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 The cynic in me see that as the best way for the US to cut its national debt by getting people back to work, increase prices and income to they pay more total tax and basically make the debt in today's dollars look far less in 2020 dollars... Basically disobey economical rules to keep inflation in check to selfishly minimize a huge national debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Basically disobey economical rules Sounds like what got us into this mess Edited March 4, 2012 by Ron W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Seems that if inflation takes off for five to ten years, the US national debt could be effectively reduced but at what price? That only works if you can pay off your current debts without additional borrowing. About half of our public debt comes to maturity over the next 5 years, and would have to be either re-issued at higher interest rates (~$200 billion more per year, just to tread water), or paid from the general fund (~$1 trillion/year... which ain't gonna happen). That's why keeping inflation low has been such a high priority of the treasury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Safety is usually the excuse people use to squash certain projects, such as light-rail as one example. I know my community has invested heavily in pedestrian trails, and you had people use the "safety" issue, stating that rapists and murderers were going to line up on the pedestrian trails to attack. Didn't matter how much data was presented to show how safe trails are, that was all the naysayers had on their side. Then you had "certain" people (lil' old me) who publically told them the only fear they should have, was that people would essentially be walking feet from their back yard, and their only fear should be embarassment of how dirty and unkept some of those rear yards were Issue passed unanimously 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSFan00 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Light rail down Woodward in Detroit? Ok. . Skip to 2:30. They could call it UAW rail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Light rail down Woodward in Detroit? Ok. . Skip to 2:30. They could call it UAW rail. You can always count on the Reason Foundation to make an idiotic argument that plays off people's ignorance to oppose any government spending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Light rail down Woodward in Detroit? Ok. . Skip to 2:30. They could call it UAW rail. By the way, if you click "Share", then "Options", you can embed the start time into the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSFan00 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 You can always count on the Reason Foundation to make an idiotic argument that plays off people's ignorance to oppose any government spending. Idiotic arguments against a $50MM light rail project down a street with no rush hour traffic? Ok. This project would have helped zero commuters, and cost a fortune. Decrease taxes and you might get more business support some day. Detroit voters have elected the wrong party/politicians consistently, and are paying the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Reg is still $3.69 in my neighborhood today but local TV is reporting prices in the general area are approaching $4. Just based on the fact that they reported it I have no doubt that all of the local stations will raise their price by at least $.20/gal before the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Idiotic arguments against a $50MM light rail project down a street with no rush hour traffic? Ok. This project would have helped zero commuters, and cost a fortune. Decrease taxes and you might get more business support some day. Detroit voters have elected the wrong party/politicians consistently, and are paying the price. Sounds like the common arguments we hear about light rail expansion in Baltimore. Nobody uses the heavily-subsidized/over-budget light rail they already have. And some want to expand it??? Lunacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Idiotic arguments against a $50MM light rail project down a street with no rush hour traffic? Ok. This project would have helped zero commuters, and cost a fortune. Decrease taxes and you might get more business support some day. Detroit voters have elected the wrong party/politicians consistently, and are paying the price. I would say a decent mass transit system is a basic requirement for every large metro area in the 21st Century if you want to be or maintain viability. For Metro Detroit right now, I would agree spending $500 million to $1 billion makes no sense. What does make sense though is a regional transit authority with power to at least fund a basic mass transit bus system to meet basic needs for those who don't own cars or just want to use their vehicles less and save money. Use the buses you have now with maybe a few more new ones, nothing fancy, and install some decent warming stations and barricade a couple lanes on Woodward, Gratiot, Michigan, and Grand River out to exurbia with express service, and first establish a passenger base before spending more money on fancy equipment and better stations. Instead of building a super expensive, elaborate system and hoping customers come and use it, start small and build the system as more customers clamor for it. There is a need for it as just roads and air travel are not enough anymore in this century. The freeways are built and in most instances are beyond capacity much of the time, and time to expand transportation system to other modes. We can't pave our way to oblivion. Better use of what we have. In Detroit, Gratiot, Grand River, and Michigan Avenue are wide boulevards with no traffic and could be put to better use to take some strain off of backed up freeways. I'm old enough to remember the PCC streetcars and Trolleys running up and down those very wide boulevards when Detroit was a first class city. Many people still go downtown since the Lodge, Jeffries, and Edsel Ford Freeways are still jammed and backed up every morning and week night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Idiotic arguments against a $50MM light rail project down a street with no rush hour traffic? Ok. This project would have helped zero commuters, and cost a fortune. That's the nice thing about shooting a video. You can go there any time of the day and scream like a lunatic "this is rush hour traffic". I don't know if it was 1pm or 4pm. Neither do you. We happen to have a very successful light rail service in San Diego, so I tend to view LRT favorably, but I don't know enough about Detroit to know if it's a good project or not. I don't know what bus lines it would replace, what capacity those lines run at, how well it would support other service realignment (usually light-rail is set up as the backbone to link together distant bus service with lower operating costs than buses), how many minutes it would reduce the average trip - but I guarantee you someone has analyzed all these things, run then numbers, and concluded that the cost of construction will be paid off by increased economic efficiency and opportunity. Because that's what urban planners do. But the video is using all sorts of disingenuous arguments - like "their spend the money on something else" tirade, when you know they'd argue against anything else you proposed spending money on. Because that's what the Reason foundation does. Decrease taxes and you might get more business support some day. Detroit voters have elected the wrong party/politicians consistently, and are paying the price. Mmm yes because lowering taxes ALWAYS works. Look how 50 years of tax cuts, and the lowest business and upper-income tax rates since before WW2 have prevented recessions! <- what Republicans are doing with tax cuts, trying to cure their headache. It ain't working, but that doesn't stop them! I'd say the trouble is that Detroit hitched its star to American manufacturing - a historically poor bet over the last 60 years (but hopefully one that has found its level). Edited March 6, 2012 by Noah Harbinger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenp77 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Reg is still $3.69 in my neighborhood today but local TV is reporting prices in the general area are approaching $4. Just based on the fact that they reported it I have no doubt that all of the local stations will raise their price by at least $.20/gal before the weekend. Seattle area average price now is $4.05 for reg. unl. am afraid if these prices stay for long truck sales will tank again big time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) That only works if you can pay off your current debts without additional borrowing. About half of our public debt comes to maturity over the next 5 years, and would have to be either re-issued at higher interest rates (~$200 billion more per year, just to tread water), or paid from the general fund (~$1 trillion/year... which ain't gonna happen). That's why keeping inflation low has been such a high priority of the treasury. The treasury keeps inflation low by removing anything we HAVE to buy day to day that goes up in price (energy, food) from the equation to calculate thier reported inflation. That, and the treasury's QE progam has resulted in the price of oil and gas rising. Since oil is paid for in US$, the less the US$ is worth (QE) the more we pay for the same barrell of oil. Edited March 6, 2012 by Kev-Mo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Seattle area average price now is $4.05 for reg. unl. am afraid if these prices stay for long truck sales will tank again big time I bet small truck sales don't pick up either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Mmm yes because lowering taxes ALWAYS works. Look how 50 years of tax cuts, and the lowest business and upper-income tax rates since before WW2 have prevented recessions! <- what Republicans are doing with tax cuts, trying to cure their headache. It ain't working, but that doesn't stop them! I'd say the trouble is that Detroit hitched its star to American manufacturing - a historically poor bet over the last 60 years (but hopefully one that has found its level). We don't need tax cuts - we need SPENDING cuts! Tax cuts or other special programs just shift the burden around. We need to lower government spending and at some point in the future that will allow tax cuts across the board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Sounds like the common arguments we hear about light rail expansion in Baltimore. Nobody uses the heavily-subsidized/over-budget light rail they already have. And some want to expand it??? Lunacy. Besides the disruptions for when they double-tracked it through the city, it really doesn't go through any areas convenient for transit. That's one of the downfalls of using existing tracks as right-of-way; while inexpensive, it's far from pedestrian activity. Especially north and south of the city. From what I can gather of the Red Line, they don't have the supposed luxury of using existing train ROWs, so they have to blaze a new trail. However, they'll actually be able to serve high-activity areas this time instead of being in the middle of nowhere like Warren Road near Hunt Valley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I bet small truck sales don't pick up either Nissan is +1 Frontier for February: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Panic time again about gas prices. 15 cents a gallon increase causes near riots, $100 more for health insurance? "Eh" How about driving less? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 We don't need tax cuts - we need SPENDING cuts! Tax cuts or other special programs just shift the burden around. We need to lower government spending and at some point in the future that will allow tax cuts across the board. Cut what spending? Defense? With McCain talking about American warplanes bombing Iran? Social Security? With so many older poor people living on social security only and eating dog food. Mass Transit? With 30% of citizens in large urban areas no longer able to afford motor vehicles. Medicare? With many older Americans being only health insurance they have if that. Medicaid? With more working poor that can't afford insurance going to it under Obamacare Pell Grants? With college education unaffordable now for many and going up 7%/year. Transportation in general? With roads and bridges crumbling affecting the economy. Where are these freakin cuts some talk of? At best if you have no heart and use a meat cleaver instead of a scalpel, MAYBE you could cut 7% of the budget. I know there is a ton of waste in many federal programs, but to cut them and FRAUD you will need to hire many more thousands of federal workers which will cut into your savings. No matter how you cut it, guys like Romney should not be paying only 15% of their income and less on taxes. More like 35%. Nothing political about it....just common sense and simple, freakin MATH. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Cut what spending? Defense? With McCain talking about American warplanes bombing Iran? Social Security? With so many older poor people living on social security only and eating dog food. Mass Transit? With 30% of citizens in large urban areas no longer able to afford motor vehicles. Medicare? With many older Americans being only health insurance they have if that. Medicaid? With more working poor that can't afford insurance going to it under Obamacare Pell Grants? With college education unaffordable now for many and going up 7%/year. Transportation in general? With roads and bridges crumbling affecting the economy. Where are these freakin cuts some talk of? At best if you have no heart and use a meat cleaver instead of a scalpel, MAYBE you could cut 7% of the budget. I know there is a ton of waste in many federal programs, but to cut them and FRAUD you will need to hire many more thousands of federal workers which will cut into your savings. No matter how you cut it, guys like Romney should not be paying only 15% of their income and less on taxes. More like 35%. Nothing political about it....just common sense and simple, freakin MATH. Thank you for not running for office, FordBuyer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Thank you for not running for office, FordBuyer! Don't worry...I'd rather pull my finger nails out with pliers than get into politics, especially the politics of today. Kind of like watching a dysfunctional family on Dr. Phil or some dysfunctional, reality cable show. We better hope there is no giant asteroid out there with Earth as a target...we'd rather argue about it than fix the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Cut what spending? Defense? With McCain talking about American warplanes bombing Iran? Social Security? With so many older poor people living on social security only and eating dog food. Mass Transit? With 30% of citizens in large urban areas no longer able to afford motor vehicles. Medicare? With many older Americans being only health insurance they have if that. Medicaid? With more working poor that can't afford insurance going to it under Obamacare Pell Grants? With college education unaffordable now for many and going up 7%/year. Transportation in general? With roads and bridges crumbling affecting the economy. Where are these freakin cuts some talk of? At best if you have no heart and use a meat cleaver instead of a scalpel, MAYBE you could cut 7% of the budget. I know there is a ton of waste in many federal programs, but to cut them and FRAUD you will need to hire many more thousands of federal workers which will cut into your savings. No matter how you cut it, guys like Romney should not be paying only 15% of their income and less on taxes. More like 35%. Nothing political about it....just common sense and simple, freakin MATH. So what's the solution? Tax the rich even more? That doesn't solve the problem. I agree everyone should pay their fair share and I'm not in favor of tax breaks or special treatment for the rich. But when you're spending so much more than you're collecting then you simply have to cut back. You can do it surgically or you can do it across the board. Corporations do it all the time. It will be painful but I just don't see where we have a choice. We can't just keep raising the debt ceiling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 If gasoline goes to $5.00 a gallon you can kiss this country goodbye. There will be no frivolity, just the basics. No restaurants, no Disney World, no travel, no tourism, no movies, no sports stadiums filled to capacity. The car companies can't survive on Ford Focus and Chevy Sonic sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Panic time again about gas prices. 15 cents a gallon increase causes near riots, $100 more for health insurance? "Eh" How about driving less? Not always possible, especially for those who have to commute because there is/was no work closer to home. If gasoline goes to $5.00 a gallon you can kiss this country goodbye. There will be no frivolity, just the basics. No restaurants, no Disney World, no travel, no tourism, no movies, no sports stadiums filled to capacity. The car companies can't survive on Ford Focus and Chevy Sonic sales. I was talking to my father the other day about gas prices, and he brought up the 70s when gas first crested $1/gal and how everyone thought that was OMG THE END OF THE WORLD back then. Yet we survived. People are going to find a way to continue to live their lives, especially those who frequent as well as work in restaurants, for Disney World, for travel companies, for tourism entities, for the movie business, and for sports teams (athletes as well as staff). Just like they did back during the oil embargo. And even if gas crests $5 or even $6, I'm still not getting a B- or C-car as a daily driver. :shades: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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