Ford giving up on Fiesta, Focus and Fusion

[Assimilator]

I don't think Escape or MKC are going to be made at additional plants since Ford will likely expand production in Louisville with the changeover and shift exported MKC production to China which will free up capacity for Escape. EcoSport, Maverick, and even Focus Active will likely take some pressure off of Escape going forward, not to mention the increasingly competitive environment which is dividing up the compact crossover pie more evenly.

 

And then...well...there is this.

 

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/799432403727028224

Edited April 27, 2018 by Assimilator

[Trader 10]

Bronco/Ranger probably 175K best case scenario and probably half of those sales would otherwise go to another Ford product. It’s ridiculous for Ford to infer they cant make a reasonable return on Fusion making it in Mexico. I bet Ford makes more money on Fusion than it does Escape.

[akirby]

So Ford is walking away from some 500K units from sedans, what other "vehicles" will they introduce to make up for it? Bronco/Ranger wouldn't even make half of that missing loss...

But it might make twice as much profit.

 

You forgot Aviator, Baby Bronco, maybe another short C utility. Focus Active. Hybrid everything. Probably Everest at some point. More Lincolns.

[mackinaw]

So Ford is walking away from some 500K units from sedans, what other "vehicles" will they introduce to make up for it? Bronco/Ranger wouldn't even make half of that missing loss...

 

All of these "white paper" vehicles Farley's taking about. As he put it, "not a traditional silhouetted sedans." Something brand new for us to ponder.

[2b2]

I don't think Escape or MKC are going to be made at additional plants since Ford will likely expand production in Louisville with the changeover and shift exported MKC production to China which will free up capacity for Escape. EcoSport, Maverick, and even Focus Active will likely take some pressure off of Escape going forward, not to mention the increasingly competitive environment which is dividing up the compact crossover pie more evenly.

 

And then...well...there is this.

 

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/799432403727028224

not a word about Escape... ...gonna be alot of C2 Cuv-thingies to spread around

[RadicalX]

The withdrawal of Fusion will help and much to Lincoln and his Z midsize sedan

[2005Explorer]

Ford will still make cars elsewhere so if the market shifts, they can import them.

 

If the Ranger is anything to go by it'll only take 5 years or so to get a passenger car back in North America if the market shifts.

[snooter]

If the Ranger is anything to go by it'll only take 5 years or so to get a passenger car back in North America if the market shifts.

The problem is can you ever get those buyers of small cars back???...in the 70's the boomers went with honda, datsun and yota....will millenials forego small cars for suv's, crossovers and the like???

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

If the Ranger is anything to go by it'll only take 5 years or so to get a passenger car back in North America if the market shifts.

lol I made that same point a few pages ago

[jpd80]

lol I made that same point a few pages ago

But, Ford never makes mistakes....

[MKII]

By what Farley said I am going to assume that these not traditional sedans will be similar design language or type of vehicles like the ACTIVE line, the DS 4 Crossback, Citroen C3 Aircross & C4 Cactus, and BMW's weird looking X4, & X6 style.

 

My assumption why Ford is using the cars don't make us profit angle is to tell the money people who cares if we lose a couple hundred thousand customers we don't make any money on.

 

Sounds like good business but to me begs the question how do the other companies make it work? Don't they all have to answer to shareholders, Wall street etc as well?

[fuzzymoomoo]

By what Farley said I am going to assume that these not traditional sedans will be similar design language or type of vehicles like the ACTIVE line, the DS 4 Crossback, Citroen C3 Aircross & C4 Cactus, and BMW's weird looking X4, & X6 style.

 

My assumption why Ford is using the cars don't make us profit angle is to tell the money people who cares if we lose a couple hundred thousand customers we don't make any money on.

 

Sounds like good business but to me begs the question how do the other companies make it work? Don't they all have to answer to shareholders, Wall street etc as well?

Currency manipulation and cheaper non-union labor.

[MKII]

But isn't the Fusion assembly being done in Mexico cheaper than dirt?

 

Must be much lower costs comparing to the non-union labor assembly locations.

Edited April 27, 2018 by MKII

[fuzzymoomoo]

But isn't the Fusion assembly being done in Mexico cheaper than dirt?

 

Must be much lower costs comparing to the non-union labor assembly locations.

Between all of the foreign companies, they have a grand total of zero union plants in the US. Yes they still have plants in Mexico but they choose to build their sedans (except for a few) in the US. Thats where they use currency manipulation to their advantage, especially the Japanese companies. I dont understand how exactly it works but I know it has to do with exchange rate.

 

At risk of hijacking this into a political discussion, literally the one thing I give the president credit for when it comes to the auto industry is calling them out on it because its the only thing hes been correct about.

Edited April 27, 2018 by fuzzymoomoo

[silvrsvt]

Between all of the foreign companies, they have a grand total of zero union plants in the US. Yes they still have plants in Mexico but they choose to build their sedans (except for a few) in the US. Thats where they use currency manipulation to their advantage, especially the Japanese companies. I dont understand how exactly it works but I know it has to do with exchange rate.

 

See here-this from four years ago

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140206/GLOBAL/302069911/fords-hinrichs%3A-toyota-japanese-unfairly-aided-by-currency

 

 

Yen to Dollar

 

 

A weak currency lets exporters exchange U.S. dollars earnings for more yen in Japan

Edited April 27, 2018 by silvrsvt

[silvrsvt]

 

While that's true, if I'm going into the market to buy a replacement,I'm not looking into getting what's essentially a simple modification of the same design (it also makes convincing the wife to give her blessing a lot harder). While it may be true that the sedan market is decreasing, it doesn't mean it's going away and those that don't want a xUV platform aren't going to suddenly decide to get one if there are other manufacturers available to give them what they want. At this rate, eventually the xUV market is going to be in the same cutthroat situation that the mid-size segment was a couple of years ago. If evolution theory applies to vehicle manufacturers as well, you don't survive long term by focusing on one specialty but you need to have a portfolio of different product types to offer or you won't survive. Hopefully this isn't the case, but we'll see.

 

 

 

The problem is with pricing-People will buy a sedan if its cheap-if not they will spend more money on a CUV or Truck because of its perceived utility to buyers.

 

A sedan is good at just transporting a person or a few people to point A to B. A CUV/Truck can do the same thing, but you can fit more people (CUV) or fit large pieces of cargo in the bed of a truck. Even if you don't use it 99% of the time.

[silvrsvt]

Speaking of driving dynamics-

 

My wife had a 2010 Escape (didn't handle that great) and now has a 2017 Escape-the newer Escape handles pretty well-almost as well as the newer gen Foci I've driven in the past. I'm hoping we get an Escape ST down the road since it would be a good fit or replacement for the Focus ST.

 

Given the vast majority of buyers aren't enthusiasts-they really don't care about that stuff.

[Fgts]

For a Ford sedan maybe they should go back to the 1930-1961 style, one car/several models. For example a Mustang base sedan with "Fusion" 2.0 Eco-2.7 Eco, "Taurus" 3.3-3.5 Eco and "Falcon" V8 only.

[Fgts]

For a Ford sedan maybe they should go back to the 1930-1961 style, one car/several models. For example a Mustang base sedan with "Fusion" 2.0 Eco-2.7 Eco, "Taurus" 3.3-3.5 Eco and "Falcon" V8 only.

[akirby]

The problem is can you ever get those buyers of small cars back???...in the 70's the boomers went with honda, datsun and yota....will millenials forego small cars for suv's, crossovers and the like???

With the right products it’s not a big deal. Ford’s conquest rates are pretty high on hot products.

 

The problem is a lot of those cheap buyers are not just first time buyers who will eventually move up to more expensive vehicles. A lot of them are just cheap and they don’t have any brand loyalty. So for Ford they don’t represent any opportunity for profitable sales.

 

Where Ford has totally screwed up is by not keeping vehicles updated to encourage repeat buyers. 3 yr leasees typically want something different - they don’t want to lease a 2013 Fusion then a 2016 and a 2019 back to back if they look exactly the same.

[rmc523]

 

Focus Active's suspension is raised about 30 mm compared to regular Focus hatch. That will worsen driving dynamics.

 

Oooooooo.....a whole 3 cm. big deal. You really think that's going to make that much of a difference, especially to the average buyer?

 

Y'all are acting as if they put a 10" lift kit on the thing.

 

The Focus Active is a Focus hatch with plastic around the wheel wells and a slight raise that most people wouldn't notice even if you parked them next to each other.

[jpd80]

And you know what, that 30mm lift probably puts the ride height back to where cars used to be.

[Harley Lover]

So tell us exactly what Honda and Toyota and GM will be doing 24 months from now. In detail. I mean surely these other companies are revealing all their future plans too, right? We'll wait.....

 

Nobody does that. It's unnecessary. Ford has already revealed more than it should have sooner than it should have due to poor product planning (talking Ranger and Bronco). It doesn't matter if you're the market leader or not. You shouldn't give your competitors advanced notice of anything you don't have to.

 

You keep missing the point. Ford have already announced they will reveal their plan in September. So actually, Ford "does that". But keep trying to defend it, we'll wait...

Edited April 27, 2018 by Harley Lover

[silvrsvt]

 

You keep missing the point. Ford have already announced they will reveal their plan in September. So actually, Ford "does that". But keep trying to defend it, we'll wait...

 

 

And how do you know they are going to say anything "new"? Your just arguing to argue.

 

If anything, you'll see the next Gen Explorer and Escape and that's about it it-both will launch within 12 months of this September...hardly earth shattering there.

 

The Bronco and Baby Bronco will most likely be teased again-maybe we will actually get a name for it.

 

They aren't going to lay out in detail every plan they have for the next 4 years.

[hoss96racing]

I have an idea or theory concerning the possibility of a next gen midsize car. What if Hackett decided to remake the next Fusion into rwd CD6 based vehicle and instead of a traditional sedan turned it into a hatchback vehicle like the new VW Arteon? I believe it would appeal to both consumers and the police force alike. It would be like knocking two birds with one stone....

 

That's what i was thinking... a four door mustang on CD6.