Ford giving up on Fiesta, Focus and Fusion

[92merc]

People keep griping about "when high fuel prices return." Since 2008, auto makers have come quite a long ways in making CUV's and trucks perform better. Now that CUV's are within 1-2 mpg of sedans, people would rather flock to CUV's. I'm one of them.

 

Ford will have to mix it up a bit. Some CUV's will be more car like. Some will be more Jeep like with "some" off road capabilities. They can't throw everything into one basket. There will be some flops I'm sure. But overall, they will be doing better than being stuck in a declining car market. It's mini-vans all over again when Ford decided to leave those.

[351cid]

Maybe if Ford would have invested in keeping the Fusion relevant & fresh; it would still be profitable. Instead, that money was spent on plug ins & auto driving cars.

 

What ever the result of this turn, Ford will get what they deserve. From my eyes, they have lost a customer. Several in my circles see it the same way. If this all trucks, all the time crap is a hit; good for them.

[sullynd]

The exact same thing was said for the wrangler and Porsche suvs And 4 door didnt happen. Done wrong it would kill it, (like fwd and 4 cylinder) done right it would be a huge hit.

Exactly. The people who complain are the same type of people who would say GM should bring the Monaro/Commodore here but not buy them. Remember the uproar over the Charger being a four door? How many people do you think didnt buy a four door Charger because of the name (If only theyd called it an Intrepid!) or ended up buying a Challenger (arguably a two door Charger).

[rmc523]

The exact same thing was said for the wrangler and Porsche suvs And 4 door didnt happen. Done wrong it would kill it, (like fwd and 4 cylinder) done right it would be a huge hit.

 

Porsche didn't make a 4-door 911, though. They added a new model. Adding 4 doors to Wrangler is different to me - there's a long precedence of adding 4 door models to trucks and SUVs without negative affect.

 

I'm not advocating against a Mustang-based 4 door, but I hesitate to make a 4-door Mustang.

 

Maybe if Ford would have invested in keeping the Fusion relevant & fresh; it would still be profitable. Instead, that money was spent on plug ins & auto driving cars.

 

What ever the result of this turn, Ford will get what they deserve. From my eyes, they have lost a customer. Several in my circles see it the same way. If this all trucks, all the time crap is a hit; good for them.

 

Honda invested in the Accord, and it's still drastically dropping.

 

I'm not saying Ford shouldn't have invested - I agree, they should have, but investing in it doesn't necessarily mean it'd be doing well.

[jasonj80]

 

Porsche didn't make a 4-door 911, though. They added a new model. Adding 4 doors to Wrangler is different to me - there's a long precedence of adding 4 door models to trucks and SUVs without negative affect.

 

I'm not advocating against a Mustang-based 4 door, but I hesitate to make a 4-door Mustang.

 

 

Honda invested in the Accord, and it's still drastically dropping.

 

I'm not saying Ford shouldn't have invested - I agree, they should have, but investing in it doesn't necessarily mean it'd be doing well.

The Tbird added 4 doors, the impala added 4 doors, the charger added 4 doors, the civic added 4 doors. There are customers that would buy a Mustang as a 4 door that would never touch it as a 2 door. They just must keep the Mustang DNA, with the cost of vehicles people are requiring more practical cars.

 

I also think a bit of the SUV worldwide craze is that were all getting fat and its way easier to get into and out of a higher vehicle. 58 and 250lbs is not going to feel good getting out of a Mustang everyday vs an Escape. I do realize a 4 door Mustang isnt going to fix that either. Looking at people in general I think I should be investing in diabetes companies...

[tzach]

My question is would buyers be more likely to buy a four door mustang than a four door with the mustang power train and suspension but unique sheet metal and named Torino (or any other name)?

[fuzzymoomoo]

I would not be interested in a 4 door Mustang.

 

Now if they used that powertrain, made a useable backseat and kept an aggressive profile similar but not identical to the Mustang I would certainly listen.

[jpd80]

Call a four door Mustang what it is, a Falcon or a Maverick and lets move on

[Sevensecondsuv]

My preference would be to call it Galaxie. And while we're at, please put the new "7 litre" in it!

[akirby]

There is no benefit to calling it a Mustang.

[MKX1960]

There is no benefit to calling it a Mustang.

To me, there's only one way to build a Mustang and it's with 2 doors. But, people said the same thing when Charger went to 4 doors. That turned out to be a good seller.

[silvrsvt]

To me, there's only one way to build a Mustang and it's with 2 doors. But, people said the same thing when Charger went to 4 doors. That turned out to be a good seller.

 

And the Charger name was used on other products too...

[silvrsvt]

This chart makes it simple to explain-I was trying to find year to year since 2010, but fuck this is good enough

 

[2b2]

^ dunno if this'll help

Ford-Lincoln sales 2012-thru-2017

[ANTAUS]

"Higher ride height than a sedan"....Freestyle...is that you...? Were you ahead of your time...?

[silvrsvt]

"Higher ride height than a sedan"....Freestyle...is that you...? Were you ahead of your time...?

 

 

I'm still not sold on this-How many attempts where made at doing this over the past 10 years? All of them have been failures IMO.

[tzach]

I think the Freestyle problem was styling. Bland and more station wagon like than crossover. Also it basically duplicated the Explorer. Then turned into it and look what happened to the sales. Same basic platform but SUV styling.

[mackinaw]

"Higher ride height than a sedan"....Freestyle...is that you...? Were you ahead of your time...?

 

Maybe 10 years back I asked a local police officer how he liked his Chevy Impala cop car. Generally, he liked it. His only criticism was that it was too low to the ground. "Too hard to get in and out of" was his comment.

 

As you get older you do appreciate easier entry and egress. I know I do.

[grbeck]

As someone who prefers cars - true cars - to trucks and crossovers, this news is depressing.

 

But the business justification is there. Perhaps Ford should have spent more to keep the Fusion and Focus updated. (The Fiesta and Taurus were lost causes no matter what - Americans aren't wild about truly small cars, and non-premium large cars are a dead segment.)

 

Honda spent a fortune on the new Accord, and it has won awards and received rave reviews. Yet sales through the end of March are DOWN by 11. 8 percent. And, no, buyers aren't flocking to the equally praised Civic, which has recorded a whopping 0.6 percent sales bump through the end of March. (The Accord's saving grace will most likely be that it shares a platform with the Civic and CR-V. And perhaps Honda will simply accept a lower sales rate, figuring that if that many people are willing to buy it without hefty incentives or lease deals, it's the "new normal.")

 

No doubt Ford's leadership has been paying very close attention to those figures, as well as the hefty discounts offered by the Toyota on the new Camry from the first day it went on sale.

Edited April 30, 2018 by grbeck

[akirby]

It’s all about margins, not pure profit or sales volume. An updated Fusion and Focus would have sold ok but I don’t think anybody is making a 8% margin with midsized or compact sedans right now. IIRC Toyota seems to always be around a 4% margin in the US so yes they’re willing to accept lower margins than Ford. Probably the same for Honda. Remember they also get benefits from currency exchange.

 

And they’ll have the platforms and factory space to switch production from utes to cars if the market changes. I’d be much more concerned if they were killing the platforms or sacrificing factory space and the ability to build a sedan in the future.

 

It does bode well for more performance options since those are higher margin vehicles.

[rmc523]

 

 

I'm still not sold on this-How many attempts where made at doing this over the past 10 years? All of them have been failures IMO.

 

Freestyle and Five Hundred were universally panned for both bland styling and being underpowered (203-hp) and had a CVT.

 

In other words, they were behind the 8 ball from the start. Changing to Taurus compromised the vehicle in other ways - a massive car without a massive car sized interior. Flex is/was polarizing and hasn't been updated since 2013, which was a minor update at best too.

 

In other words, I don't think a "good" attempt has been made yet. Not to mention the market has drastically changed since then.

[silvrsvt]

 

Freestyle and Five Hundred were universally panned for both bland styling and being underpowered (203-hp) and had a CVT.

 

In other words, they were behind the 8 ball from the start. Changing to Taurus compromised the vehicle in other ways - a massive car without a massive car sized interior. Flex is/was polarizing and hasn't been updated since 2013, which was a minor update at best too.

 

In other words, I don't think a "good" attempt has been made yet. Not to mention the market has drastically changed since then.

 

 

Lets see-some of the stuff I can think of that where supposed to be white space vehicles that didn't quite make it-

 

1st Gen Chrysler Pacifica

Honda Crossturd and whatever the Acura version was called

BMW X6

 

And so on....

[rmc523]

 

 

Lets see-some of the stuff I can think of that where supposed to be white space vehicles that didn't quite make it-

 

1st Gen Chrysler Pacifica

Honda Crossturd and whatever the Acura version was called

BMW X6

 

And so on....

 

X6 is still around? And complemented by X4, and now X2 (though X2 is more traditionally styled, but still a variant of the X1).

 

It still strikes me a illogical as to why Chrysler used Pacifica on the minivan instead of using it on a coming crossover.

[ZanatWork]

"Higher ride height than a sedan"....Freestyle...is that you...? Were you ahead of your time...?

Sorta, in Taurus X form with the newer powertrain, it could have been pretty important if really marketed. However, it was a stop-gap for both the Explorer and the Flex.

 

The stupid truth in all of this is that Subaru ends up looking like complete geniuses in some regards.

[jcartwright99]

My question is would buyers be more likely to buy a four door mustang than a four door with the mustang power train and suspension but unique sheet metal and named Torino (or any other name)?

 

Oh...I thought the 4 door was going to be a Lincoln!