silvrsvt Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2018/06/28/elon-musk-calls-ford-morgue-ford-fires-back/741328002/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 I just read this about 10 minutes ago and I still cannot stop laughing. Elon Musk is so beyond delusional. I bet hes never even been inside a Ford plant before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 The thing that bothers me the most about Tesla, much like when the Prius came out, is their fanatical cult like followers. I will give Tesla their due for engineering a fine electric cars. The problem is, they don't know how to mass produce them. When you tell one of their zealots this, they don't believe you and insult you. Musk is an ego maniac dbag, that is delusional. The Tesla faithful aren't too far off from that. Answer me this, how many issues do you think that Tesla Model 3 will have in say 5 years? Would you want to spend 40k on something that was built with suspect build quality and practices? I know I wouldn't. I have much more faith in a highly mass produced F150 than any Tesla product for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Tesla wouldn't be having half the issues they are having, and have had , if they had followed a tried and true ( sorry Probowler ) business practice of franchising….going his own way as such has placed the company under un-necessary financial strains which is counterproductive. if he had gone the franchise route he would have had substantially more money to improve his manufacturing arm...AND had a far superior infrastructure and distribution network...his ego killed him.....Im actually surprised they are still afloat. And it may get worse...here come the heavy hitters to infiltrate a market segment hes pretty much been the only player in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Answer me this, how many issues do you think that Tesla Model 3 will have in say 5 years? Would you want to spend 40k on something that was built with suspect build quality and practices? I know I wouldn't. I have much more faith in a highly mass produced F150 than any Tesla product for that matter. The ones they're selling now are closer to $60K. The cheaper ones don't come out for a few more months. Most seem to treat this like the latest and greatest iPhone - have to get one doesn't matter what it costs or how long it lasts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 The ones they're selling now are closer to $60K. The cheaper ones don't come out for a few more months. Most seem to treat this like the latest and greatest iPhone - have to get one doesn't matter what it costs or how long it lasts. You're correct. I find it ironic that the government is giving away tax credits for these 60k electric luxury vehicles and by the time they start building the affordable ones, the tax credit will be gone. I am assuming someone buying a 60k luxury car probably makes 6 figures. Yet, the guy making 40-50k year, will probably want one but since the tax credit was hoarded by the rich won't be able to afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 You nailed it. I think it's ridiculous they allow tax credits to apply towards short term leases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 ........ Musk is an ego maniac dbag, that is delusional. The Tesla faithful aren't too far off from that........ For the tech crowd, Musk is the new Steve Jobs. Jobs became a god-like figure and Apple zealots followed him whether he was right or wrong. Ditto with Musk. To the tech-crowd, Musk is the future and Ford (actually the Detroit Three) are hopelessly lost in the past. The best thing Ford can do is to launch the Mach 1 (or whatever they call their BEV) on time and with great quality. Then rub Elon's nose in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 I see a similar attitude with lighting. People are buying brand new cars then swapping out every light bulb for a LED even tiny ones. I can't see any purpose for it - they just think LEDS are cool and incandescents/halogen bulbs are so yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 I dont mind LEDs around the house but Im not about to go out and replace everything in my house with them. I will however get rid of those stupid CFLs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Got to love Mike Levine. https://twitter.com/mrlevine/status/1012152115194662913?s=21 https://twitter.com/mrlevine/status/1012325488885403648?s=21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Two of the three major American automakers having a spat with each other, fun! Both Ford and Tesla have their strengths and weaknesses. Each one can learn from the other. Hopefully after they calm down they will do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSchicago Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 I see a similar attitude with lighting. People are buying brand new cars then swapping out every light bulb for a LED even tiny ones. I can't see any purpose for it - they just think LEDS are cool and incandescents/halogen bulbs are so yesterday. All my vehicle lighting is LED. All my store lighting is LED. Most of my home lighting is LED. It is much more efficient. I own an LED vehicle lighting, and Safety clothing store. My lights are on 24/7. Electric bill is cheaper than when the CFL lights were on only during the day. I'm a believer in good LED lighting! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 All my vehicle lighting is LED. All my store lighting is LED. Most of my home lighting is LED. It is much more efficient. I own an LED vehicle lighting, and Safety clothing store. My lights are on 24/7. Electric bill is cheaper than when the CFL lights were on only during the day. I'm a believer in good LED lighting! In cars, many of the newest Tesla, Jaguar, Mercedes-Benz, and Lincoln models use LED for all or almost all lighting functions. The only advantage of incandescent lamps for cars now is cheap initial cost. LED is far superior in every other way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) And yet Tesla stock has gone from $17.00 a share to $350.00 today with a peak of $383.45 Ford stock on the other hand $2.45 to $11.28 today with a peak of $32.59. I don't get it. Musk is burning through cash like no tomorrow and the stock keeps going and going. Edited June 29, 2018 by coupe3w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 ....... I don't get it. Musk is burning through cash like no tomorrow and the stock keeps going and going. Wall Street loves disrupters and Tesla is seen as a disrupter. You can make boatloads of money by investing in a disrupter. The jury is still out whether Tesla has legs or not. My guess, probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) And the true nature of Wall Street is revealed, Tesla is a speculator's and flipper's dream company for making huge profits but, when it comes to profit, the truth is that Tesla is a chocolate teapot and will never match Ford or GM let alone stay in business Just imagine if Ford or GM did decide to pull the trigger and spend $20 billion on a suite of vehicles to go after Tesla, the reason neither hasn't bothered is because now is not the time...there is still way too much money to be made in today's vehicles to fund tomorrow's dreams. The Dearborn automaker has been as perplexed as anyone over Wall Street's illogical infatuation with Tesla. How can an unprofitable company that builds cars in a tent, continually misses targets and employs a CEO who cavalierly dismisses analysts' "boring bonehead questions" have a higher valuation than a profitable century-old automaker that reliably churns out millions of vehicles, including the nation's top-selling F series, year after year? Edited June 29, 2018 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 As mentioned by other journalists, all Ford needs to do is bring their electric cars mainstream. Ford knows how to build a vehicle in an assembly line, Tesla doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 And yet Tesla stock has gone from $17.00 a share to $350.00 today with a peak of $383.45 Ford stock on the other hand $2.45 to $11.28 today with a peak of $32.59. I don't get it. Musk is burning through cash like no tomorrow and the stock keeps going and going.Ford stock will always underperform as long as they have their two-tiered stock structure that keeps the actual control in the hands of the Ford family. It's a sword that cuts both ways, though--it keeps the institutional and other big investors away because they can't buy control, but it also keeps the vulture capitalists like Carl Icahn from destroying the company. Tesla, on the other hand, has a showman for a leader, and I'd bet you a lot of those investors think they're sitting on the stock of the next Amazon. Remember--it took Amazon the better part of a decade to turn a profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Part of me thinks that Elon with his tech background has managed to figure out how to fool electronic trading and that helps with the stock price. After it dips it gets reported that he bought thousands of shares when it was low. Tesla is the next Worldcom and Enron. A few people will end up in jail over it. It will also be a conspiracy theory that Ford, GM and other autocompanies conspired to put them out of business. Telsa stragity was banked on selling itself and selling credits. Elon didnt think they would actually build electric cars to compete in the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 I don't think Tesla will be making cars in 5 years. By then the mainstream mfrs will have caught up and surpassed them. I think Musk will take the battery technology that he's developed with the cars and apply it to commercial and residential products. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Ford stock will always underperform as long as they have their two-tiered stock structure that keeps the actual control in the hands of the Ford family. It's a sword that cuts both ways, though--it keeps the institutional and other big investors away because they can't buy control, but it also keeps the vulture capitalists like Carl Icahn from destroying the company. Tesla, on the other hand, has a showman for a leader, and I'd bet you a lot of those investors think they're sitting on the stock of the next Amazon. Remember--it took Amazon the better part of a decade to turn a profit. The difference is Amazon built something that truly didn't exist, ie truly online Wal-mart with 0 brick and mortar stores. Add to it that they made shipping easy with prime, and added additional services. Tesla isn't building anything new! Just a new and improved electric car. They are on the verge of losing their new and improved first mover advantage. Once luxury car makes start rolling out their new electrics, it will be game over for Tesla. They don't produce a lower end car like the Bolt at the moment so I only consider Tesla a luxury car maker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 I don't think Tesla will be making cars in 5 years. By then the mainstream mfrs will have caught up and surpassed them. I think Musk will take the battery technology that he's developed with the cars and apply it to commercial and residential products. I agree. I am sorry but building cars in tents doesn't bode well for their future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 I don't think Tesla will be making cars in 5 years. By then the mainstream mfrs will have caught up and surpassed them. I think Musk will take the battery technology that he's developed with the cars and apply it to commercial and residential products. They can build the car today (GM arguably does). They dont have the panache, but more importantly dont have the supercharger network. Its be nice to see Ford and GM team up on one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 They can certainly build the cars but they can't do it in volume at a decent profit yet because of the battery cost and market conditions. That's what should change over the next 5 years to make it viable. Not a technical limitation at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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