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Tesla pickup reveal Nov 21st

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First company to mass produce a truly capable BEV pickup truck will change the game for the whole automotive industry and have it made. Will it be Tesla? Ford? Or another company?

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58 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

First company to mass produce a truly capable BEV pickup truck will change the game for the whole automotive industry and have it made

 

Don't you have to make a profit with it before you 'have it made?'

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47 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

 

Don't you have to make a profit with it before you 'have it made?'

 

In the long term, yes sir. Manufacturers of BEV pickup trucks will have to ensure they are profitable products over their lifecycle. This is where Tesla has an advantage over everyone else. Tesla is the only major automaker currently that has demonstrated the ability to mass produce BEV profitably. 

 

 

Edited by rperez817

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19 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

This is where Tesla has an advantage over everyone else. Tesla is the only major automaker currently that has demonstrated the ability to mass produce BEV profitably. 

 

You can't be serious.

Edited by fordmantpw

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

In the long term, yes sir. Manufacturers of BEV pickup trucks will have to ensure they are profitable products over their lifecycle. This is where Tesla has an advantage over everyone else. Tesla is the only major automaker currently that has demonstrated the ability to mass produce BEV profitably

 

 

 

Image result for what gifImage result for what gifImage result for what gif

 

Image result for i don't think that word means what you think it means

Edited by rmc523

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

In the long term, yes sir. Manufacturers of BEV pickup trucks will have to ensure they are profitable products over their lifecycle. This is where Tesla has an advantage over everyone else. Tesla is the only major automaker currently that has demonstrated the ability to mass produce BEV profitably. 

 

 


If by profitably you mean selling ev credits, and playing accounting tricks eg booking revenue in specific quarters from self driving features that are activated then yes they are very profitable.
 

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Ok...I'll bite. Have no idea if Tesla will fair better than Toytota or Nissan when the tried to break into full sized ICE pickups. The question is, will they have the money to continually update them as GM, Ford, and Ram do? The Tundra on paper (ok in real life) wasn't a bad truck when it came out. However, 2 years after it looked like an also ran. The fact that Ford will have an NG ICE, Hybrid, and potentially a full electric  full size by the time this sees the light of day really limits Tesla's advantage. 

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Tesla may, someday in some way, make an annualized profit. So far, they have managed to keep going through a sort of ponzi scheme where they get early deposits on upcoming products, along with going deeply into debt and relying on speculative investment by those sold on the vision. They have absolutely changed the face of the U.S. and global automotive world. They made electric cars cool, desirable and upscale, a far cry from earlier crapmobiles churned out for CAFE compliance. Here are a couple financial analyses the Tesla profitability issue, 1) from Lux Research and 2) from The Motley Fool.

 

https://www.luxresearchinc.com/blog/will-tesla-ever-make-money

"Despite Tesla's leadership in most metrics related to BEVs, they have failed to compete with other large automakers on one key metric: profitability. Although Musk's vision for Tesla may not have included profitability when it was founded 15 years ago, its existence is now threatened by its inability to make money." (Emphasis in original.)

 

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/04/17/how-does-tesla-actually-make-money.aspx

"Without a doubt, Tesla has changed the face of the car industry, but how does it make money? In short, they don't. Throughout its history as a public company, Tesla has never been profitable on an annual basis, and has only recorded a few profitable quarters in its history.  ...  Time will tell whether Tesla can overcome these and other significant challenges facing the company today and someday achieve consistent profitability."

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2 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

 The fact that Ford will have an NG ICE, Hybrid, and potentially a full electric  full size by the time this sees the light of day really limits Tesla's advantage. 

 

i'm willing to make the bet that the Mach E is on the market before the Model Y and that the BEV F-150 is out before the Tesla pickup. 

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6 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

i'm willing to make the bet that the Mach E is on the market before the Model Y and that the BEV F-150 is out before the Tesla pickup. 

I'll take that bet 

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9 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

i'm willing to make the bet that the Mach E is on the market before the Model Y and that the BEV F-150 is out before the Tesla pickup. 

 

I'd say definitely on the F-150 BEV.

 

Model Y they might be able to eek out a few units before Mach E.  We'll have a better idea of timeline in 10 days.

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11 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

i'm willing to make the bet that the Mach E is on the market before the Model Y and that the BEV F-150 is out before the Tesla pickup. 

 

4 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I'll take that bet 

 

Same here. F-150 is so important to Ford's existence that I think they'll do everything possible to beat Tesla in terms of being first to deliver a BEV pickup truck to retail customers.

 

Ford already demonstrated a prototype BEV F-150 towing a 1 million pound load back in July. https://interestingengineering.com/ford-released-a-video-of-their-electric-f-150-towing-over-a-million-pounds

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

Ford already demonstrated a prototype BEV F-150 towing a 1 million pound load back in July. https://interestingengineering.com/ford-released-a-video-of-their-electric-f-150-towing-over-a-million-pounds

 

You do realize those are all publicity stunts and a regular F150 could do the same thing.......

 

Pulling is not the same as towing.

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Tesla is blessed with outside thinking which leads to unconventional approaches to fundamentally everything in the automobile, even the air vents and door handles.  Right now the industry is largely copying what Tesla does more or less because their level of innovation top to bottom is so influential.  Tesla just has a freedom nobody else has, and it's propelled by bigger ideas than most carmakers (especially Detroit) simply concerned with keeping their huge businesses stabilized and profitable.  Tesla doesn't have to make money, it is free to spend and take risks.  Tesla is the only company that could have done what they did, by far the most influential carmaker since Ford.  This industry badly needed innovation in many disciplines, not just EVs.

 

When it comes to trucks, they are both tools and luxury vehicles.  You can have allot more fun if you chose the luxury side and don't have obligations to the tool side.  The Cybertruck doesn't have to conform to anything which is exciting, but also where Ford in particular has some advantage.  And it's not like Ford makes appliances either, they have a history of taking big educated and successful risks on their most important vehicle. 

 

And the way I look at it now, Tesla now has 4 vehicles without a release date, more than the 3 vehicles they make now.  That's allot of floating uncertainties.  

Edited by Assimilator

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35 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

Tesla is blessed with outside thinking which leads to unconventional approaches to fundamentally everything in the automobile, even the air vents and door handles.  

 

New and different isn't always good.  Tesla's retractable door handles are said to be the cause of a driver burning to death after a collision.  

 

"As cool as they may be to some Tesla fans, the unique retractable door handles on the Tesla Model S are being faulted in a lawsuit over the death of a man in Florida. The man, Omar Awan, crashed into a tree in a Model S and was then unable to get out of the electric vehicle when the battery caught fire. The accident and death occurred in February.  A wrongful death lawsuit was filed in state court in Broward County, Florida, on October 10 claims that Awan was burned beyond recognition "because the Model S has inaccessible door handles, no other way to open the doors, and an unreasonably dangerous fire risk."

 

"Many Tesla drivers have complained about the Model S's retractable doors. Consumer Reports noted in 2015: "Our car reliability survey shows that doors, locks, and latches are the biggest trouble areas with Teslas and that the Model S has far higher than average rates of such problems." The magazine's own Model S effectively locked people out of the car due to broken handles after just a month."

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29576096/tesla-model-s-lawsuit-door-handles-fire/

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1 hour ago, 92merc said:

Number of trucks Tesla has built:  0

 

Number of trucks Ford has built: More than 1

 

Winner: Ford. 

 

😛

 

😃

That's indeed Ford's big advantage in the race to mass produce BEV pickup trucks. Lots of history with the pickup truck aspect of that product. The company has done a masterful job of selling pickups for over 70 years.

 

If it can combine that pickup truck knowledge with the ability to mass produce BEV, and do so before its competitors (Tesla, other pure EV companies, plus all the incumbent automakers selling pickups), Ford will win for sure. 

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3 hours ago, Assimilator said:

Tesla is blessed with outside thinking which leads to unconventional approaches to fundamentally everything in the automobile, even the air vents and door handles.  Right now the industry is largely copying what Tesla does more or less because their level of innovation top to bottom is so influential.  Tesla just has a freedom nobody else has, and it's propelled by bigger ideas than most carmakers (especially Detroit) simply concerned with keeping their huge businesses stabilized and profitable.  Tesla doesn't have to make money, it is free to spend and take risks.  Tesla is the only company that could have done what they did, by far the most influential carmaker since Ford.  This industry badly needed innovation in many disciplines, not just EVs.

 

When it comes to trucks, they are both tools and luxury vehicles.  You can have allot more fun if you chose the luxury side and don't have obligations to the tool side.  The Cybertruck doesn't have to conform to anything which is exciting, but also where Ford in particular has some advantage.  And it's not like Ford makes appliances either, they have a history of taking big educated and successful risks on their most important vehicle. 

 

And the way I look at it now, Tesla now has 4 vehicles without a release date, more than the 3 vehicles they make now.  That's allot of floating uncertainties.  

Ford also has the complication of making the BEV truck fit into its existing ICE truck range.

The object is to grow sales, not replace them...not yet anyway.

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3 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

😃

That's indeed Ford's big advantage in the race to mass produce BEV pickup trucks. Lots of history with the pickup truck aspect of that product. The company has done a masterful job of selling pickups for over 70 years.

 

If it can combine that pickup truck knowledge with the ability to mass produce BEV, and do so before its competitors (Tesla, other pure EV companies, plus all the incumbent automakers selling pickups), Ford will win for sure. 

 

You don't have to be first to market.  It helps, but in the end, it's the product that makes or breaks you, not your trophy for being first.


Take mid-size SUVs back in the late 80's for example.  Who was first?  Jeep with the Cherokee.  Who won?  It's hard to argue that Ford won with the Explorer.

 

First-place trophy's don't pay the bills.

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48 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

 

You don't have to be first to market.  It helps, but in the end, it's the product that makes or breaks you, not your trophy for being first.

 

Good point fordmantpw sir. If first movers in any market become complacent and fail to think long term, they can lose their initial advantage. Mass produced highway capable BEV passenger cars in the U.S. demonstrate this. The first movers were Mitsubishi and Nissan with i-MiEV and Leaf respectively. Both companies became complacent and didn't respond well to the introduction of Tesla Model S, which set a new standard of excellence not just for EVs but for all cars shortly thereafter.

 

I should have said "First company to mass produce a truly capable BEV pickup truck will change the game for the whole automotive industry, and if they capitalize on that advantage, will have it made." 

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14 minutes ago, 92merc said:

Another electric truck being built.  Haven't heard of this one before.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/08/business/gm-lordstown-plant-sale-electric-pickup/index.html

 

Lordstown Motors (LMC) is a company founded by the previous CEO of Workhorse. https://workhorse.com/ 

 

Workhorse has a 10% stake in LMC, plus a licensing agreement in which Workhorse gets 1% of the gross sales price of each LMC truck sold, up to the first 200,000 units. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/workhorse-group-signs-intellectual-property-licensing-agreement-with-lordstown-motors-corp-300954405.html

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