rmc523 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 It's so odd seeing the car cull in full effect to where models are almost gone! Lincoln numbers look great aside from MKX/Nautilus being down a fair amount. XT6 and Aviator have been pretty close every month. XT6 - 2,179 vs. Aviator 2,024 Hopefully Escape and Explorer start to normalize soon. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 I think Ford’s in trouble with the new Escape. It’s just not a good enough effort in a class with lots of competition. There are a lot of remaining 2019’s even with $5000 rebates. I don’t think the new model sells anywhere close to the last generation unless big rebates are in place. The new Explorer has jumped a lot in price which may explain the decline there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 20 minutes ago, Trader 10 said: I think Ford’s in trouble with the new Escape. It’s just not a good enough effort in a class with lots of competition. There are a lot of remaining 2019’s even with $5000 rebates. I don’t think the new model sells anywhere close to the last generation unless big rebates are in place. The new Explorer has jumped a lot in price which may explain the decline there. Where is it priced relative to the competition and the old one? If it's priced higher then smaller volume is fine. If it's priced the same and lower volume that's an issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNSLS Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 22 minutes ago, Trader 10 said: I think Ford’s in trouble with the new Escape. It’s just not a good enough effort in a class with lots of competition. There are a lot of remaining 2019’s even with $5000 rebates. I don’t think the new model sells anywhere close to the last generation unless big rebates are in place. The new Explorer has jumped a lot in price which may explain the decline there. When the OLD MODEL looks better than the new one...you are in big trouble. Prediction-Ford will lose market share in this segment with the introduction of the 2020 Escape. I am also waiting to see how the Explorer does-now that the price is in the hemisphere. Even tho they are different architectures-the Explorer DOES COMPETE with the Kia Telluride and Hyundai Palisades which are selling very well-at drastically lower prices. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 (edited) I believe that Ford is going too far with trading off even more sales to higher pricing and that's starting to come back and bite them in the ass as buyers are now more willing to cross shop. Ford is not a premium brand but it's almost like Hackett is set on aligning Ford's pricing that way and dropping base trims. On another note, F Series had over 72,000 sales last month, even with a new Super Duty change happening Edited December 5, 2019 by jpd80 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 5, 2019 Author Share Posted December 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, jpd80 said: I believe that Ford is going too far with trading off even more sales to higher pricing and that's starting to come back and bite them in the ass as buyers are now more willing to cross shop. Ford is not a premium brand but it's almost like Hackett is set on aligning Ford's pricing that way and dropping base trims. I have to agree with this. I'm all for increased ATPs at the cost of some sales, but you can't let them drop too much. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I have to agree with this. I'm all for increased ATPs at the cost of some sales, but you can't let them drop too much. I suspect that it's the reason why we're seeing a rebalancing of Explorer Vs Expedition with Expedition now seeing more sales (+10K) versus Explorer still sitting at 15,000 sales. There's a whole different dynamic going on here, maybe you could include Edge in that too.. I think that Ford is hurting "volume Trim" sales of Explorer by not giving those buyers VALUE and perhaps charging too much for upgrades - the evidence is there with sales down quite dramatically. Edited December 5, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Rebates on f150 here are 15k off on some f150's and 7.3k on SD...granted those are 19's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 I still see more 2020 Escapes and Explorers in my area then I’ve seen of the Ranger, which has been out the whole year. The escape is still spooling up and the Explorer seems to have fixed its launch snafus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: I still see more 2020 Escapes and Explorers in my area then I’ve seen of the Ranger, which has been out the whole year. The escape is still spooling up and the Explorer seems to have fixed its launch snafus. Maybe I'm a little tough on Explorer, it's only down about 2,000 compared to November last year but Edge is up quite a bit, so maybe there's some give and take there as well... Could Expedition's increased sales last month be a result of stronger incentives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 51 minutes ago, CKNSLS said: I am also waiting to see how the Explorer does-now that the price is in the hemisphere. Even tho they are different architectures-the Explorer DOES COMPETE with the Kia Telluride and Hyundai Palisades which are selling very well-at drastically lower prices. The Explorer actually outsells both of them-combined. 15K Explorers vs 5,268 Palasaids and 6,824 Tellurides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictor Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 The escape was launched when and what kind of inventory is out there. I think the escape and explorer will pick up once the volume in inventory gets distributed. Has Dean weighed in on this discussions. I would like to know the opinion of the guys having to sell these models to the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 (edited) There are continuing issues with Ford's leasing not being as competitive as it could be, that monthly payment is so important and drives a lot of customers down the road. If Ford wants to charge higher prices for vehicles it must support them with competitive leases Edited December 5, 2019 by jpd80 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 (edited) It's way too early to complain about Escape sales right now with such a fresh launch. Explorer didn't really change from the previous month so that might be worth a thought or two, but I would also say it's a little early since they are always figuring out the product mix for the dealers within the first year. And of course incentives and favorable lease rates come in to play later. Expedition, that almost seems like a mistake, that's pretty insane! Fusion numbers are also shocking, they dropped so much. But if you look at the year, YTD sales aren't down that much. It's obviously not a great year overall, but they were able to recover a big chunk of the lost car sales with other vehicles despite those other vehicles (Explorer and Escape) going through a disruptive changeover. I don't think they'll be in a growth pattern until end of 2020 or 2021, assuming the economy holds. We still have to go a whole year with virtually no cars, this year we still had lots of cars to sell. We won't have new volume products next year until late so it's hard to see where they'll get growth beyond returning Escape and Explorer to their normal levels. Ranger still has room, hopefully they'll add another 20-40K Ranger sales next year which should help close the car gap a little more. Edited December 5, 2019 by Assimilator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 (edited) F Series.....................72,227 Ranger.......................10,568 Silverado...................53,090 Sierra.........................19,963 Colorado......................8,954 Canyon.........................2,208 Ram Pickup..............54,965 Tundra.........................8,816 Tacoma.....................20,727 Edited December 5, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadicalX Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 It seems to me aviator's stealing Nautilus sales. The car has been growing well in recent months and suddenly has 18% drop. Navigator, Expedition, Ranger, Edge and Mustang Coupe are doing very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 1 hour ago, pictor said: The escape was launched when and what kind of inventory is out there. I think the escape and explorer will pick up once the volume in inventory gets distributed. Has Dean weighed in on this discussions. I would like to know the opinion of the guys having to sell these models to the public. When I was at the dealer a few weeks ago and I mentioned to my salesman I didn't like the new Escape. His first question was if it was too soft for me. I wonder if that's been the feedback elsewhere too. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadicalX Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: When I was at the dealer a few weeks ago and I mentioned to my salesman I didn't like the new Escape. His first question was if it was too soft for me. I wonder if that's been the feedback elsewhere too. Every comment in the Youtube comments session about Escape videos has someone complaining about the design. Ford needs to move and schedule an emergency facelift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 I’m noticing a lot of new expeditions here lately. They look good too. I saw a black platinum today and it looked sharp. I did a double take. Been seeing a few new navigators also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 55 minutes ago, Assimilator said: Expedition, that almost seems like a mistake, that's pretty insane! I have a theory on this, Maybe the GM strike caused it to miss a fleet order in October that was filled by Ford last month? I have no proof of this but the jump of near 5,000 sales would be explained by a fleet delivery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, RadicalX said: Every comment in the Youtube comments session about Escape videos has someone complaining about the design. Ford needs to move and schedule an emergency facelift Yeah its called the baby Bronco... 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 18 minutes ago, RadicalX said: Every comment in the Youtube comments session about Escape videos has someone complaining about the design. Ford needs to move and schedule an emergency facelift wasnt there a thread about how ford was already planning one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 1 minute ago, T-dubz said: wasnt there a thread about how ford was already planning one? Just rumors on here...I haven't seen anything published Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02MustangGT Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 15 minutes ago, fordtech1 said: I’m noticing a lot of new expeditions here lately. They look good too. I saw a black platinum today and it looked sharp. I did a double take. Been seeing a few new navigators also. Same here. Neighbors just purchased an Expedition Limited. We were very close to pulling the trigger on a nicely discounted 2019 Lariat to take advantage of 0% financing. Ultimately we decided to wait another year since our 2013 F150 only has 64k miles and we have 2 years remaining on the Premium ESP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadicalX Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 1 minute ago, T-dubz said: wasnt there a thread about how ford was already planning one? just Ford taking the Kuga's front bumper/grille and putting it in Escape. It's much better than the current smiling face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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