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KIA and Lincoln not cross shopped.......

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On 1/2/2020 at 10:26 AM, Assimilator said:

I love the person who claims they were cross shopping a much more expensive vehicle and chose the Kia not because they couldn't afford the Aviator, but because reasons.

 

 

 

 

To be fair he did list "reasons".

 

Mainly being the low quality and issues of the Aviator, the fact the Kia dealer is much closer, and that the Kia was $21K less expensive.  Just because YOU wouldn't cross-shop those brands doesn't mean others wouldn't.  Many reviews have indicated how the Kia punches well above it's price tag in terms of quality.  That's just a fact.

 

And I've yet to see articles like this written about the Kia:

 

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2019/10/03/lincoln-aviator-suv-recall-chicago-explorer-police-interceptor/3830654002/

 

 

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1 hour ago, fordtech1 said:

Which I think is interesting. Hotels are completely the opposite. If the building doesn’t meet the requirements they won’t renew the franchise. Since Lincoln actually has some good stuff now and coming, it’s a shame they can’t be more stringent on the customer experience.


It’s all due to state automotive franchise laws written 50+ years ago to protect dealers from the big bad corporations.

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It's fine to  ask higher prices than anyone else just don't front up with a  so so 2.3EB when you have a great 2.7 EB right there that no FWD competitor can come near. That easy low down torque (400 lb ft) should have made it a no brainer in this size and weight vehicle.

Edited by jpd80

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7 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

And as usual, you corrected nothing.

 

...and, as usual, your reply reminds me of this. Now, get up and wipe away your tears...it will be ok.

 

image.png.826643ce94a3dce493f8cb8efe401a2d.png

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8 hours ago, sho94_2000 said:

 

You won't from any of the Detroit papers. They pretty much only go after the Big 3 because of the local ramifications. 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo

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26 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 

You won't from any of the Detroit papers. They pretty much only go after the Big 3 because of the local ramifications. 

 

That almost seems counter-intuitive. You would think the Detroit press would "protect" the Big 3, since a happy, employed population would buy newspapers and click on articles.

 

HRG

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25 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

That almost seems counter-intuitive. You would think the Detroit press would "protect" the Big 3, since a happy, employed population would buy newspapers and click on articles.

 

HRG

 

Around here, that is what sells. 

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On 1/3/2020 at 9:29 PM, HotRunrGuy said:

 

That almost seems counter-intuitive. You would think the Detroit press would "protect" the Big 3, since a happy, employed population would buy newspapers and click on articles.

 

HRG

 

Not at all...just apply it to a larger audience-people (unfortunately) will click on the articles with negative headlines just to find out what contrived BS there is in it. Negativity sells...and you see it played out in the media all the time. 

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I like all three, but the Palisade seems like a better vehicle than the Telluride to me   

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5 minutes ago, sullynd said:

I like all three, but the Palisade seems like a better vehicle than the Telluride to me   

 

I don't remember the review but there were 2 or 3 things that were different between the two in favor of the Kia.

 

I've seen several Tellurides in person and they look great.

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I think all three look great. The Palisade has features the Telluride does not, such as a power third row.  Palisade is made in Korea, Telluride in the US, which may account for the feature differences. 

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11 minutes ago, sullynd said:

The Palisade has features the Telluride does not, such as a power third row. 

 

Maybe I had it backwards.  I know one had more features than the other.

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2 hours ago, akirby said:

I've seen several Tellurides in person and they look great.

 

There are a few Tellurides running around town here - I see them pretty regularly at the grocery. Generally, it's a very successful design compared to Kia's other attempts at unique utility styling. However... the scale and vertical division between (headlight) [-------------grille-------------] (headlight) is not going to age well. The scale and layout are more suited to a concept car... a sort of deviance from the norm that garners attention on the show stand and it has served it well for launch. The more the design ages and becomes more prevalent though, the more off-putting  the lack of a visual reference point on the front end will become. 

 

/soapbox

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8 minutes ago, PREMiERdrum said:

 

There are a few Tellurides running around town here - I see them pretty regularly at the grocery. Generally, it's a very successful design compared to Kia's other attempts at unique utility styling. However... the scale and vertical division between (headlight) [-------------grille-------------] (headlight) is not going to age well. The scale and layout are more suited to a concept car... a sort of deviance from the norm that garners attention on the show stand and it has served it well for launch. The more the design ages and becomes more prevalent though, the more off-putting  the lack of a visual reference point on the front end will become. 

 

/soapbox

 

I can see how you might not like it, but as for it not aging well - I'm not buying that.  I like it.

 

2020-Kia-Telluride-7.jpg?fit=around%7C87

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3 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

I can see how you might not like it, but as for it not aging well - I'm not buying that.  I like it.

 

To each their own, of course, and to a certain degree styling remains subjective. 

 

However, much like meeting a cute girl whose eyes you later realize are just a few millimeters too far apart, deviation from the basic norms of what we consider attractive eventually become exposed, even if those same issues are initially appreciated and recognized as "different," "exotic," etc. 

 

And FWIW, I don't *not* like it... I just know how dated I believe it's going to look soon. :)

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6 minutes ago, PREMiERdrum said:

And FWIW, I don't *not* like it... I just know how dated I believe it's going to look soon. :)

 

It doesn't look that different to me.  Maybe I'm missing something.

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37 minutes ago, PREMiERdrum said:

 

There are a few Tellurides running around town here - I see them pretty regularly at the grocery. Generally, it's a very successful design compared to Kia's other attempts at unique utility styling. However... the scale and vertical division between (headlight) [-------------grille-------------] (headlight) is not going to age well. The scale and layout are more suited to a concept car... a sort of deviance from the norm that garners attention on the show stand and it has served it well for launch. The more the design ages and becomes more prevalent though, the more off-putting  the lack of a visual reference point on the front end will become. 

 

/soapbox

 

2020-Kia-Telluride-7.jpg?fit=around%7C87

Image result for sid the sloth

Edited by rmc523

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28 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

It doesn't look that different to me.  Maybe I'm missing something.

 

Don't sweat it... when you study and work in design long enough these sorts of long range perceptive quirks just get more obvious. In its most basic form, "good design" means giving the eye natural focal points and familiarity by utilizing proportion, scale, and balance to connect individual elements within the larger design. 

 

For example, the brains of most "design minded" people will recognize the front end of a car the same way it does a face. We naturally center our stare in the negative space above the nose (grille) and between the eyes (headlights)... the other facial features are picked up more peripherally which is why humans naturally use motion in their lips and eyebrows to convey feelings, emphasis, and emotion. Because we generally see in wide rectangles, not squares or tall shapes, we can usually keep the eyes and upper nose in focus together. 

 

Looking at the Telluride, a natural look at the front end  from a normal angle reveals that - when focusing on the natural focal point - the "eyes" lie too far outside of the comfort zone where we expect them to be. When this design is new, it forces us to look around and notice other details of the fascia... the interestingly wide pattern of the grille, the dramatic LED halos in the light housings, the wideset lettering at the crown, etc. It's new... it's exciting. It seems more dynamic because the eye is always darting around the design looking at new details. Once it *isn't* new, it's visually unsettling. You've seen the grille mesh. You've seen the LEDs. You *want* your eye to rest on it like you can other cars, but because the proportions are outside what we see as normal, it's difficult. 

 

This is the same issue that the new C H E V R O L E T grille style has on the GM trucks... the only place for the eye to comfortably fall is on the little bowtie in the lower corner of the grille. It's visually unsettling, even if it at first appears dynamic.  

 

16 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

2020-Kia-Telluride-7.jpg?fit=around%7C87

Image result for sid the sloth

 

PERFECT, Remmy. There was a girl who was a year behind me in school. She was cute and had very interesting facial features that many young lads found alluring. She always wore her hair asymmetrical, covering one side of her face. As we grew, it became clear that her eyes were *very* far apart and the hair style was her attempt to offset that. She's a sweetheart and a lovely woman, but even knowing her for 21 years now it is still a bit jarring whenever I see her. 

 

The same case of visual norms applies above. 

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1 hour ago, PREMiERdrum said:

 

There are a few Tellurides running around town here - I see them pretty regularly at the grocery. Generally, it's a very successful design compared to Kia's other attempts at unique utility styling. However... the scale and vertical division between (headlight) [-------------grille-------------] (headlight) is not going to age well. The scale and layout are more suited to a concept car... a sort of deviance from the norm that garners attention on the show stand and it has served it well for launch. The more the design ages and becomes more prevalent though, the more off-putting  the lack of a visual reference point on the front end will become. 

 

/soapbox

I agree.  The front end just looks off to me, primarily the headlights.   I’ll probably get used to it, but don’t expect it to look “normal”.

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This particular thread reminds me of some of my earliest posts back in 2006 (still available on here, btw) about how impressed I was with a new design 2004.5 Kia Spectra EX I had purchased new as a go-to-work vehicle.  It was very nicely optioned, and all for about $13.5k US out-the-door.

 

I shared with the forums here my observations about how really decent the Spectra was, and I was practically laughed off the board.  I later pointed out the quick rise of the H/K duo in the various quality ratings, and again was met with derision.

 

So I must admit that I take a little pleasure in reading this thread.  😉   For the record though, I truly am happy for Ford that the Lincoln lineup is looking so polished and robust these days.  And I actually would have to say that I prefer the Lincoln's SUV styling efforts over the Telluride.   It's very heartening to see the resurgence of Lincoln over Cadillac, after all the years of Caddy looking like it was the one American luxury line that would survive and thrive.  I just wish that Lincoln would revive a Continental Mark (or better yet - a new Thunderbird!) line in a nice 2-door coupe - but with the current trends for sedans/coupes, we all know that that isn't going to happen any time soon.

 

I just *wish* Ford would do more towards avoiding the predictable vehicle launch issues, the usual "big ticket" engineering faux pas de jour (Focus trannys?), and the plethora of little-but-imporant-part breakages that only seem to happen on Fords and not many other high volume makes.

 

In any case, I'd have to say looking back 13+ years now that my predictions and observations about the Koreans weren't too far off the mark.

 

-Ovaltine

 

 

 

Edited by Ovaltine

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26 minutes ago, PREMiERdrum said:

 

Don't sweat it... when you study and work in design long enough these sorts of long range perceptive quirks just get more obvious. In its most basic form, "good design" means giving the eye natural focal points and familiarity by utilizing proportion, scale, and balance to connect individual elements within the larger design. 

 

For example, the brains of most "design minded" people will recognize the front end of a car the same way it does a face. We naturally center our stare in the negative space above the nose (grille) and between the eyes (headlights)... the other facial features are picked up more peripherally which is why humans naturally use motion in their lips and eyebrows to convey feelings, emphasis, and emotion. Because we generally see in wide rectangles, not squares or tall shapes, we can usually keep the eyes and upper nose in focus together. 

 

Looking at the Telluride, a natural look at the front end  from a normal angle reveals that - when focusing on the natural focal point - the "eyes" lie too far outside of the comfort zone where we expect them to be. When this design is new, it forces us to look around and notice other details of the fascia... the interestingly wide pattern of the grille, the dramatic LED halos in the light housings, the wideset lettering at the crown, etc. It's new... it's exciting. It seems more dynamic because the eye is always darting around the design looking at new details. Once it *isn't* new, it's visually unsettling. You've seen the grille mesh. You've seen the LEDs. You *want* your eye to rest on it like you can other cars, but because the proportions are outside what we see as normal, it's difficult. 

 

This is the same issue that the new C H E V R O L E T grille style has on the GM trucks... the only place for the eye to comfortably fall is on the little bowtie in the lower corner of the grille. It's visually unsettling, even if it at first appears dynamic.  

 

 

PERFECT, Remmy. There was a girl who was a year behind me in school. She was cute and had very interesting facial features that many young lads found alluring. She always wore her hair asymmetrical, covering one side of her face. As we grew, it became clear that her eyes were *very* far apart and the hair style was her attempt to offset that. She's a sweetheart and a lovely woman, but even knowing her for 21 years now it is still a bit jarring whenever I see her. 

 

The same case of visual norms applies above. 

 

Here's a view from directly head on, and you'll see what PD is talking about.

 

From a 3/4 angle, it doesn't look as odd.

 

Image result for kia telluride front

 

The odd thing is the concept's front had completely different proportions - squarer, horizontal headlights, narrower, but taller grille.

 

Image result for kia telluride concept

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With all this set, I should point out that leasing a Telluride or Palisade *is* under consideration for my wife once her current lease is up in May. I'm leaning towards buying a used 2016+ Explorer outright for cash to cut down our monthly obligations, but if there's a competitive lease option then we'll at least think about it. There's great products. 

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2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Here's a view from directly head on, and you'll see what PD is talking about.

 

From a 3/4 angle, it doesn't look as odd.

 

Image result for kia telluride front

 

The odd thing is the concept's front had completely different proportions - squarer, horizontal headlights, narrower, but taller grille.

 

Image result for kia telluride concept

OH! That concept is so much better! I like the coach doors too!

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