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I made the same comment to my wife about the generator and being able to use it when we stop for lunch.  However, I'm sure it's going to be a costly option for something that would get used very little for RV's.  You aren't going to want to sit there and let your truck idle for hours at a time while boon docking.  Rest stops? Sure.  Long-term use? Not likely.  Now, if I could use it while running down the road to power my A/C and keep the RV cool for said rest stops?  Now we're talking!

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2 hours ago, akirby said:


I thought we were talking about F-150 though.

Yes, but he was responding to the hypothetical "why not a rotary shifter instead of a fold-flat shifter" with an "I like the two options we have now."  At least, that's how I read it.

 

Then again, I'm not trying to put a 14th Gen MCE three years into the 13th Gen...:whistling:

Edited by SoonerLS

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5 hours ago, jpd80 said:

IMO, HUD is nice to have but not a deal-breaker for most F150 buyers save for high series?

Having an aftermarket HUD in my F-150, I have to agree. It's nice to have, but I'm not going to switch brands because the F-150 still doesn't offer it.

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18 hours ago, kyle said:

 

 

Everyone messes up....everyone....and he was man enough to apologize. Think it was sincere and that is enough for me. I hate today's knee jerk environment where someone gets fired, loses their business, because a mistake was made. Good lesson for everyone. Also pretty cool that the public both supported them during Ford's launch and called them out on being un-professional. 

 

 

 

But he only apologized for as you said acting "drunk" in the F-150 video (he called it being grumpy.) Not for posting the leaked Bronco pics. He did not admit any wrongdoing there. He is the owner of TFL and wouldn't fire himself for being "drunk." Any way, in one of their other channels today they did say they reached out to Ford this week and have not heard back.

Edited by Bryan1

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1 hour ago, SoonerLS said:

Having an aftermarket HUD in my F-150, I have to agree. It's nice to have, but I'm not going to switch brands because the F-150 still doesn't offer it.

And I think the jury is still out on whether it distracts more than helps drivers.

Unlike a fighter jet, you don't need to be constantly looking at instruments,

a periodic glance at the the cluster is normally enough.

 

Also, I don't understand why Ford is persisting with the 3.3 ICE instead of using

the Explorer's 3.3 hybrid and make the 2.7 EB the base engine...

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1 hour ago, Bryan1 said:

 

But he only apologized for as you said acting "drunk" in the F-150 video (he called it being grumpy.) Not for posting the leaked Bronco pics. He did not admit any wrongdoing there. He is the owner of TFL and wouldn't fire himself for being "drunk." Any way, in one of their other channels today they did say they reached out to Ford this week and have not heard back.

I gather Roman is the boss at TFL and I've noticed that he tends to be quite undisciplined at times compared to his team,

a good manager wouldn't wait so long to reach out to Ford and certainly wouldn't do it while those pics are still on line.

TFL needs to value its reputation and professionalism more than they're doing and embrace all aspects of ethical reporting.

Edited by jpd80

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3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I gather Roman is the boss at TFL and I've noticed that he tends to be quite undisciplined at times compared to his team,

a good manager wouldn't wait so long to reach out to Ford and certainly wouldn't do it while those pics are still on line.

TFL needs to value its reputation and professionalism more than they're doing and embrace all aspects of ethical reporting.

Exactly!  Let's try to reach out to Ford about the pics we should have never posted for the readers...  while the pics are still posted.

 

So stupid.

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I believe Ford still has some tricks up its sleeve that it hasn't revealed yet. HP and Torque numbers, payload and towing numbers, suspension tweaks, fuel mileage numbers, and so on. Ford gave some clues with lower drag numbers and grill shutters. Looks to me fuel numbers will be best in class along with payload and towing. Ford is not going to give up its lead without a huge fight. 

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1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

I believe Ford still has some tricks up its sleeve that it hasn't revealed yet. HP and Torque numbers, payload and towing numbers, suspension tweaks, fuel mileage numbers, and so on. Ford gave some clues with lower drag numbers and grill shutters. Looks to me fuel numbers will be best in class along with payload and towing. Ford is not going to give up its lead without a huge fight. 

 

Ford never reveals it all until they're ready to do so. And if there's anything that they excel at is making sure that they produce the best pickup available to ensure their market leadership position. 

Edited by ice-capades

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On 6/27/2020 at 11:50 PM, jpd80 said:

 

 

Also, I don't understand why Ford is persisting with the 3.3 ICE instead of using

the Explorer's 3.3 hybrid and make the 2.7 EB the base engine...

 

3.3 is there for the fleet buyers that just want a base truck with decent MPG. Most retail buyers will opt for the 2.7 EB or 5.0. And that's reflected in the sales data.

 

3.3 hybrid adds costs and will likely eclipse 5.0 V8 in MSRP. It ain't going to happen until Ford is ready to kill the V8 in F-150, which is not going to happen soon. 

Edited by bzcat

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Didn't see this nor have I really looked-but does Sync 4 support both wireless charging and Wireless connections to you cell phone via Modem (ie wifi/4/5G?)

 

Just curious if I'll be able to run Waze completely wireless in my Bronco. 

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1 hour ago, bzcat said:

 

3.3 is there for the fleet buyers that just want a base truck with decent MPG. Most retail buyers will opt for the 2.7 EB or 5.0. And that's reflected in the sales data.

 

3.3 hybrid adds costs and will likely eclipse 5.0 V8 in MSRP. It ain't going to happen until Ford is ready to kill the V8 in F-150, which is not going to happen soon. 

The 3.3 is scratching to be 5% and and not popular with fleets, it's barely worth the effort when  production space is so tight.

It seems to still be in the line up for some reason now lost with the overwhelming demand for crew cabs and super cabs.

I suspect the reason we haven't seen a 3.3 hybrid has everything to do with the 3.0 Powerstroke, it and the hybrid occupy a

similar market position and premium over the 5.0 V8. So neither would ever be considered as a replacement for the V8.

 

 

Edited by jpd80

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58 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

The 3.3 is scratching to be 5% and and not popular with fleets, it's barely worth the effort when  production space is so tight.

It seems to still be in the line up for some reason now lost with the overwhelming demand for crew cabs and super cabs.

I suspect the reason we haven't seen a 3.3 hybrid has everything to do with the 3.0 Powerstroke, it and the hybrid occupy a

similar market position and premium over the 5.0 V8. So neither would ever be considered as a replacement for the V8.

 

I'm guessing it's mainly there for lower MSRP advertising.

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On 6/27/2020 at 10:45 PM, itguy09 said:

But the Ram loses in most metrics that matter to people that use their trucks.  Not much capability, lower power options, and dubious reliability.

 

Most retail consumers who buy LD full size pickup trucks use them primarily for commuting/people hauling duty. For many of them, the latest and greatest truck (any brand) is a status symbol. The towing and cargo hauling capabilities of all LD full size pickup trucks, including Ram 1500, are far beyond what most consumers need. Same deal with power, it's more than enough for any engine on any full size pickup truck model today. Reliability is below average for all LD full size pickup truck models except Toyota Tundra according to Consumer Reports.

 

Areas where Ram 1500 excels are also the things that matter to retail consumers.

  • Transmission (ZF 8HP, the best torque converter automatic ever made for cars and light trucks)
  • Ride quality, thanks to coil spring rear suspension or air suspension
  • Interior design
  • Safety (Ram 1500 was the first and only LD full size pickup truck to win an IIHS Top Safety Pick+ award in 2019)

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On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2020 at 11:50 PM, jpd80 said:

And I think the jury is still out on whether it distracts more than helps drivers.

Unlike a fighter jet, you don't need to be constantly looking at instruments,

a periodic glance at the the cluster is normally enough.

 

Also, I don't understand why Ford is persisting with the 3.3 ICE instead of using

the Explorer's 3.3 hybrid and make the 2.7 EB the base engine...

easy $$$$..Municipalities and Govt want as cheap as possible...the 3.3 fills that need...and its their go to engine of choice...its also a very simple drivetrain in comparison with the other offerings..

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5 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Most retail consumers who buy LD full size pickup trucks use them primarily for commuting/people hauling duty. For many of them, the latest and greatest truck (any brand) is a status symbol. The towing and cargo hauling capabilities of all LD full size pickup trucks, including Ram 1500, are far beyond what most consumers need. Same deal with power, it's more than enough for any engine on any full size pickup truck model today. Reliability is below average for all LD full size pickup truck models except Toyota Tundra according to Consumer Reports.

 

Areas where Ram 1500 excels are also the things that matter to retail consumers.

  • Transmission (ZF 8HP, the best torque converter automatic ever made for cars and light trucks)
  • Ride quality, thanks to coil spring rear suspension or air suspension
  • Interior design
  • Safety (Ram 1500 was the first and only LD full size pickup truck to win an IIHS Top Safety Pick+ award in 2019)

Consumer Reports has as much credence as CNN does to accurate reporting....they have shown their preference and bias for Imports over domestics and ignored their issues for as long as I can remember...they are better off rating Ketchup...its what they do...

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8 minutes ago, Deanh said:

easy $$$$..Municipalities and Govt want as cheap as possible...the 3.3 fills that need...and its their go to engine of choice...its also a very simple drivetrain in comparison with the other offerings..

I guess it's still 24k sales a year that Ford wouldn't otherwise get.

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On 6/28/2020 at 1:50 AM, jpd80 said:

And I think the jury is still out on whether it distracts more than helps drivers.

Unlike a fighter jet, you don't need to be constantly looking at instruments,

a periodic glance at the the cluster is normally enough.

 

Also, I don't understand why Ford is persisting with the 3.3 ICE instead of using

the Explorer's 3.3 hybrid and make the 2.7 EB the base engine...

A lot of fleets want a simple base engine. They don't want the increased cost of maintenance that a 2.7 would bring over the 3.3, even if the 2.7 was free.

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15 minutes ago, LSchicago said:

A lot of fleets want a simple base engine. They don't want the increased cost of maintenance that a 2.7 would bring over the 3.3, even if the 2.7 was free.

On the contrary, most fleet buyers are shunning the 3.3 for the other engines,

it seems to be a small niche of price sensitive buyers.

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3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Didn't see this nor have I really looked-but does Sync 4 support both wireless charging and Wireless connections to you cell phone via Modem (ie wifi/4/5G?)

 

Just curious if I'll be able to run Waze completely wireless in my Bronco. 

 

Yuppers

 

https://www.engadget.com/2019-10-30-fords-sync-4-add-wireless-carplay-android-auto.html

 

Quote

When Sync 4 arrives in select Ford vehicles starting in 2020, it'll include wireless support for both CarPlay and Android Auto. Moreover, some Sync 4 vehicles will include wireless charging, so you'll be able to take one less cable with you when you go for a drive in one of the company's new cars.

 

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3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

On the contrary, most fleet buyers are shunning the 3.3 for the other engines,

it seems to be a small niche of price sensitive buyers.

 

There doesn't seem to be enough price sensitive retail buyers to account for the volume of 3.3 sales. It's obvious that a large amount of 3.3 are going to fleets and the inventory reflects this... most 3.3 are configured for commercial use and not retail commute truck.

 

If the retail buyers are buying 3.3 in any significant way, then you'd expect the inventory to feature 3.3 with retail-friendly packages but in reality, most 3.3 are fleet-ready XL or XLT with few options. Checking the XLT Sport or XL STX package which are more palatable to retail buyers, the inventory skews heavily to 5.0 V8 and 2.7 EB.

 

Just going by my zip code...

 

XL STX with 3.3 has 24 matches within 50 miles and 100+ matches with 2.7EB (actual number is way more than 100... I didn't bother scrolling thru them all).  Since STX is aimed at retail buyers (and the base XL is aimed at fleet), it suggest 3.3 is not very popular for retail buyers.

 

XLT with 3.3 has only 56 matches within 50 miles (this is a tiny amount of XLT vs. hundreds if not thousdans with 2.7EB and 5.0). And only 2 (TWO!) of them are not white color - in another word, 54 are in fleet-ready white paint ready for decals on the door. 

 

The point being, retail buyers are not really into 3.3, even the cheap one that are price sensitive opt for 5.0 V8 or 2.7EB. Fleet buyers are probably buying vast majority of 3.3.

 

 

 

Edited by bzcat

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3 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Areas where Ram 1500 excels are also the things that matter to retail consumers.

  • Transmission (ZF 8HP, the best torque converter automatic ever made for cars and light trucks)
  • Ride quality, thanks to coil spring rear suspension or air suspension
  • Interior design
  • Safety (Ram 1500 was the first and only LD full size pickup truck to win an IIHS Top Safety Pick+ award in 2019)

 

I keep hearing that the ZF 8 Speed is God's gift to the vehicle but what exactly makes it great?  It doesn't get better Fuel economy (RAM is behind) and doesn't put more power tot the pavement.  It may have better shift quality but that's more down to tuning.

 

Ride quality means little if it won't carry the load or sag.

 

Interior.  I've sat in all 3 and all 3 seem on par.  RAM is the gaudy one always reminding you are in a RAM.  It is a little tacky, IMHO.

 

Safety - I put little faith in IIHS as they constantly move the goalposts.  Given that they recently changed the test and that the Ford is the oldest I'd expect it to not do as well as the GM and FCA products.  I'm sure the 2021 will do fine.

 

As far as reliability, look at JD powers 3 year dependability.  Ford is above average and RAM is below average.  That's telling as those vehicles include the POS DPS6 transmissions in the Focus/Fiesta....

 

Sorry, no reason to choose Ram if you want a truck to do truck things.  It is one of the weakest of the bunch.  It's got a lot of window dressing but it's the same old POS.

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19 minutes ago, itguy09 said:

 

I keep hearing that the ZF 8 Speed is God's gift to the vehicle but what exactly makes it great?  It doesn't get better Fuel economy (RAM is behind) and doesn't put more power tot the pavement.  It may have better shift quality but that's more down to tuning.

 

Ride quality means little if it won't carry the load or sag.

 

Interior.  I've sat in all 3 and all 3 seem on par.  RAM is the gaudy one always reminding you are in a RAM.  It is a little tacky, IMHO.

 

Safety - I put little faith in IIHS as they constantly move the goalposts.  Given that they recently changed the test and that the Ford is the oldest I'd expect it to not do as well as the GM and FCA products.  I'm sure the 2021 will do fine.

 

As far as reliability, look at JD powers 3 year dependability.  Ford is above average and RAM is below average.  That's telling as those vehicles include the POS DPS6 transmissions in the Focus/Fiesta....

 

Sorry, no reason to choose Ram if you want a truck to do truck things.  It is one of the weakest of the bunch.  It's got a lot of window dressing but it's the same old POS.


Well that is your opinion!   The interior in the Ram is anything but on par with Ford or GM twins.  No one has stated that position. 
the ZF has great shift quality and has been very reliable. 
Consumer Reports versus JD Power is preference. I personally feel they both have credibility and not a conspiracy nut who things CR hates domestics. Blah blah blah. 
 

you are right about the IIHS. Very objective and Ford should score much higher next go around. Though they’ve missed a few high scores because of headlights. 
 

the interior on the 2021 looks feat and closes the gap w Ram-at least by initial opinions. Fun time to be a consumer because of all the great choices. 

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5 minutes ago, kyle said:


Well that is your opinion!   The interior in the Ram is anything but on par with Ford or GM twins.  No one has stated that position. 
the ZF has great shift quality and has been very reliable. 
Consumer Reports versus JD Power is preference. I personally feel they both have credibility and not a conspiracy nut who things CR hates domestics. Blah blah blah. 
 

you are right about the IIHS. Very objective and Ford should score much higher next go around. Though they’ve missed a few high scores because of headlights. 
 

the interior on the 2021 looks feat and closes the gap w Ram-at least by initial opinions. Fun time to be a consumer because of all the great choices. 

 

I sat in all 3 and didn't feel any was better or worse than the other in the interior department.  I don't generally but into the Internet Circle Jerks nor did I sit in top level of any of them.

 

The Ford 6R80 has also been quite reliable.  The 10 speed, well time will tell.

 

I've found JDP and CR closely tracking in long term dependability.  Both put Ram well below Ford.

 

Can't think of ANY reason to buy a Ram over the Ford and GM.

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53 minutes ago, bzcat said:

 

There doesn't seem to be enough price sensitive retail buyers to account for the volume of 3.3 sales. It's obvious that a large amount of 3.3 are going to fleets and the inventory reflects this... most 3.3 are configured for commercial use and not retail commute truck.

 

If the retail buyers are buying 3.3 in any significant way, then you'd expect the inventory to feature 3.3 with retail-friendly packages but in reality, most 3.3 are fleet-ready XL or XLT with few options. Checking the XLT Sport or XL STX package which are more palatable to retail buyers, the inventory skews heavily to 5.0 V8 and 2.7 EB

 

Ah, you missed the context of my reply to LSchichago.

I agree with  your POV but when I said price sensitive buyers, I wasn't talking so much about retail, 

more the sales to municipals that deanh mentioned previously. My response was more about

dismissing the myth that fleets would take 3.3 over the other engine choices, fleets take about

five times as many EBs and V8s combined as they do 3.3s......which lead to my original question.

Edited by jpd80

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