fuzzymoomoo Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 1 hour ago, dlghtjr90 said: It would be good to further clarify exactly what aspect of rotary shifter that folks don't like. I like to rest my hand on the shifter. I have nerve damage in my shoulder/upper pec on my right side so that helps keep my arm from going numb while I'm driving. Having a water bottle or coffee mug in the cup holder helps a little bit, but the position isn't quite as perfect as the shift lever normally is. then there's the lie about it saving space on the console. That IMO was total BS to try to sell the public on it somehow being a better way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, CKNSLS said: It is a "rental grade interior" at least in this trim model. Exterior is uninspiring. Final verdict-a vehcile made to appeal to three product segments-that doesn't do an adequate job of appealing to one. It appealed to me. The SE trim level could be a bit better, but not near as bad as Ford haters make it out to be. And you can always buy Rav4 with faulty fuel tank and rear suspension, or CRV with oil dilution problems. With Escape, you just have to option it right to your tastes. If you want an opulent interior and different exterior, buy/lease the Corsair. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 3 hours ago, FordBuyer said: It appealed to me. FordBuyer sir, you bought a 2020 Escape SE Sport Hybrid with Premium Package correct? That's the sweet spot in the 2020 Escape lineup for the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 8 hours ago, T-dubz said: if they really wanted to save room, they’d just use the piano key shifter from Lincoln. It takes up zero console space, and is easier to use. It isn't easier to use. With the piano keys, you have to look at the buttons to push them. The rotary is all there in a dial. You know exactly where you are when turning it as opposed to which button do I have to push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, blwnsmoke said: It isn't easier to use. With the piano keys, you have to look at the buttons to push them. The rotary is all there in a dial. You know exactly where you are when turning it as opposed to which button do I have to push. You don’t have to look at them any more then you do the knob, and that doesn’t really matter anyways. I don’t think a lot of people are doing no look shifting. With the knob, you have to go through the other gears whereas with the piano key, you go straight to the one you want. obviously neither of these are difficult, piano keys just free up a lot more room. Edited June 8, 2020 by T-dubz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Three point turn with a dial or push button is a pain. Does self parking shift for you when you have electronic shifting? My Edge self parks, but you have to shift it (2015 - Prerotodial.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 24 minutes ago, T-dubz said: I don’t think a lot of people are doing no look shifting. Really? I’ve never looked on any of my cars. Backing out of your driveway, a parking spot, three point turn, you have to look at what “gear” you are in? For me only when I had a car with a rotary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 37 minutes ago, sullynd said: Really? I’ve never looked on any of my cars. Backing out of your driveway, a parking spot, three point turn, you have to look at what “gear” you are in? For me only when I had a car with a rotary. you don’t look at the shifter or the IP? This has happened in my town multiple times from people not knowing what gear they are in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpcmotorsports Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Thank you for your open and honest real world review. The 2020 Escape is selling well at our dealership in Oklahoma. Personally, I am a huge fan of the Escape Hybrid. I'm hoping for a Sport Appearance Package on the SE and SEL like Ford offered on the 18-19 models. Those too were good sellers. Super excited for the upcoming Bronco Sport to bring back the customers that prefer their CUV to look more like a traditional SUV in the way the Gen1 Escape did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 58 minutes ago, T-dubz said: you don’t look at the shifter or the IP? Never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 My '18 Fusion has a dial shifter. After several decades of using console levers, I'm still getting used to it after 3 months. But I like the dial shifter and prefer not to go back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 12 hours ago, rperez817 said: FordBuyer sir, you bought a 2020 Escape SE Sport Hybrid with Premium Package correct? That's the sweet spot in the 2020 Escape lineup for the U.S. Correct. And if I still lived in MI on the lake off a dirt road, I probably would have considered the SEL in velocity blue with AWD and optional 2.0 turbo, towing package, and 19 inch wheels. Another very competitive Escape. My wife loves Toyota and loved our quartz blue limited Crosstrek, and hates Ford. But she loves this Escape. That says something. Also, the plugin isn't even out yet and 2021 MY will probably come with new trim packages. Lost in all this is the fact that the new Escape is much more competitive in every way than the previous generation. The reason I got the Crosstrek back in 2017 was because it was the best buy for the money hands down. The 2017 Escape wasn't even a close second. The 2020 Escape put itself back on my shopping list and I would argue better than the Toyota/Honda offerings or at least as good. Ditto for the SEL with 2.0 turbo IMO. Ford is back in the game with this new Escape, and some tweaking in 2021 and beyond will only make it better. Btw, the 10 way Active X leather seats are super soft, comfortable, and supportive. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlghtjr90 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 17 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I like to rest my hand on the shifter. I have nerve damage in my shoulder/upper pec on my right side so that helps keep my arm from going numb while I'm driving. Having a water bottle or coffee mug in the cup holder helps a little bit, but the position isn't quite as perfect as the shift lever normally is. Thanks for your experience. Is it possible that a design like below from Audi A4 is also acceptable? It is a shift-by-wire, but Audi chose to make it look like a traditional shifter. It would be good to understand if people miss the latent feature to rest your hand on the shifter, or hate the general shift-by-wire technology. 17 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: then there's the lie about it saving space on the console. That IMO was total BS to try to sell the public on it somehow being a better way. Also very true. It's basically an iceberg phenomenon that the top of the shifter may look nice and sleek with the rotary design, but there is 50lb more content compared to a mechanical shifter underneath. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 13 minutes ago, dlghtjr90 said: Thanks for your experience. Is it possible that a design like below from Audi A4 is also acceptable? It is a shift-by-wire, but Audi chose to make it look like a traditional shifter. It would be good to understand if people miss the latent feature to rest your hand on the shifter, or hate the general shift-by-wire technology. I would be willing to try it as long as it's not confusing to use. I've read that some of those can be not very user friendly. FCA's is particularly awful. 13 minutes ago, dlghtjr90 said: Also very true. It's basically an iceberg phenomenon that the top of the shifter may look nice and sleek with the rotary design, but there is 50lb more content compared to a mechanical shifter underneath. I doubt it's 50lbs worth of stuff. If nothing else mechanical linkages are completely gone and those weigh more than any wiring. I'm talking about physical visible space on top of the console. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlghtjr90 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 31 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I would be willing to try it as long as it's not confusing to use. I've read that some of those can be not very user friendly. FCA's is particularly awful. The biggest difference is the shifter always comes back to the 'central' position unlike the mechanical one where P is all the up, D/S is all the way at the bottom, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 I have gotten used to the push button shift that my MKX and now my MKC has the same style...my F150 has a steering column shifter and my Mustang has a floor mounted auto shifter and it only takes a moment to get orientated when I jump in.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 I got the sport package on my f150 because I wanted the console shifter and I do rest my hand on it and I like it. I do miss the push button start but it wasn’t worth $8k to upgrade to a Lariat. But I also don’t have an issue with the push buttons on the MKX. I go back and forth with no issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, dlghtjr90 said: The biggest difference is the shifter always comes back to the 'central' position unlike the mechanical one where P is all the up, D/S is all the way at the bottom, etc. I have an Audi with this shifter so I can explain this better. The main reason some company are shifting to RND setup is the maintain internal logic in shift pattern. In this operation, pulling down the shifter always means moving forward, and pushing up always means moving backwards, and pushing the button always means park - three different motions for three different modes. It's more intuitive for younger generation of people who grew up on video games and using binary control user interface. And once geezers like me get use to it, it becomes second nature as well (took about 3 days of getting used to it). The traditional PRND shifter has no internal logic... It is actually a pretty terrible piece of industrial design that people have learned to cope with over time. The issue is that sometimes you pull down to go reverse or neutral, sometimes you push up to go reverse or neutral. If you are distracted or in an emergency situation, you can accidentally shift into reverse or neutral by mistake - especially for inexperienced drivers that have not untrained their brain logic to adopt the illogical PRND movements with contradictory directional input. PRND shifter logic: Start in P - to go reverse = pull down; to go forward = pull down; contradictory directional input - both action require moving shifter down but going in opposite directions. Start in D - to reverse = push up; to park = push up; contradictory directional input - both action require moving shifter up. Start in R - to go forward = pull down; to park = push up; logical directional input however, logic is inconsistent with other position. RND shifter with binary control that returns to center logic: Start in P - to go reverse = push up; to go forward = pull down; logical directional input Start in D - to go reverse = push up; to park = push button; logical directional input Start in R - to go forward = pull down; to park = push button; logical directional input The trouble FCA got itself into was that they were using a PRND shift pattern in a binary input shifter that always return to center... well, you can see why that is a problem. You can't change the input device and still keep PRND... it doesn't work. Edited June 8, 2020 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 30 minutes ago, bzcat said: I have an Audi with this shifter so I can explain this better. The main reason some company are shifting to RND setup is the maintain internal logic in shift pattern. In this operation, pulling down the shifter always means moving forward, and pushing up always means moving backwards, and pushing the button always means park - three different motions for three different modes. It's more intuitive for younger generation of people who grew up on video games and using binary control user interface. And once geezers like me get use to it, it becomes second nature as well (took about 3 days of getting used to it). The traditional PRND shifter has no internal logic... It is actually a pretty terrible piece of industrial design that people have learned to cope with over time. The issue is that sometimes you pull down to go reverse or neutral, sometimes you push up to go reverse or neutral. If you are distracted or in an emergency situation, you can accidentally shift into reverse or neutral by mistake - especially for inexperienced drivers that have not untrained their brain logic to adopt the illogical PRND movements with contradictory directional input. PRND shifter logic: Start in P - to go reverse = pull down; to go forward = pull down; contradictory directional input - both action require moving shifter down but going in opposite directions. Start in D - to reverse = push up; to park = push up; contradictory directional input - both action require moving shifter up. Start in R - to go forward = pull down; to park = push up; logical directional input however, logic is inconsistent with other position. RND shifter with binary control that returns to center logic: Start in P - to go reverse = push up; to go forward = pull down; logical directional input Start in D - to go reverse = push up; to park = push button; logical directional input Start in R - to go forward = pull down; to park = push button; logical directional input The trouble FCA got itself into was that they were using a PRND shift pattern in a binary input shifter that always return to center... well, you can see why that is a problem. You can't change the input device and still keep PRND... it doesn't work. I agree this is much more intuitive once you use it a few times. Then again I always like things that are logical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 On 6/7/2020 at 9:09 PM, sullynd said: Three point turn with a dial or push button is a pain. Does self parking shift for you when you have electronic shifting? My Edge self parks, but you have to shift it (2015 - Prerotodial.) I can maybe see it with push button, but how in the world is it difficult with the dial? If you're in drive, you rotate it left two clicks and you're in reverse, 2 clicks right you're back in drive. On 6/7/2020 at 10:54 PM, sullynd said: Never. Aren't you special lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 I do a 3 pt turn backing out of the garage and it’s just as easy in my f150 console shifter as the MKX push buttons. pull down once/hit R pull down twice/hit D And when parking with the truck it’s push shifter to park. Turn ignition off. Remove key. with the MKX I just hit the Start button. It puts itself in Park and I think the rotary dial does the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 17 hours ago, bzcat said: The traditional PRND shifter has no internal logic... It is actually a pretty terrible piece of industrial design that people have learned to cope with over time. The issue is that sometimes you pull down to go reverse or neutral, sometimes you push up to go reverse or neutral. If you are distracted or in an emergency situation, you can accidentally shift into reverse or neutral by mistake - especially for inexperienced drivers that have not untrained their brain logic to adopt the illogical PRND movements with contradictory directional input. Isn't this just a technical limitation from the 1940-50 when automatic transmissions first came out and they where column shifted, just like manually shifted cars (never used a 3 on a tree before, so no fucking clue) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 50 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Isn't this just a technical limitation from the 1940-50 when automatic transmissions first came out and they where column shifted, just like manually shifted cars (never used a 3 on a tree before, so no fucking clue) I don't think it was technical. I think it was just a design choice. I think the logical progression of gears in most cases is from P to R (to back out of a parking spot) then to D. Neutral had to go somewhere so they stuck it between R and D. Pretty sure GM was the first with their hydramatic transmission and everyone else just copied it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, akirby said: I don't think it was technical. I think it was just a design choice. I think the logical progression of gears in most cases is from P to R (to back out of a parking spot) then to D. Neutral had to go somewhere so they stuck it between R and D. Pretty sure GM was the first with their hydramatic transmission and everyone else just copied it. So did some digging...and Olds was the first car with the Hydramatic transmission-1940 to be exact...and the shift pattern is NDLR or DNLR The used Hydramatics in Tanks too, so here is one out of a M18 Tank Destroyer...Can't quite make out the first letter but it looks like RN123 Edited June 9, 2020 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 No Park? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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