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California shakes up auto industry, says all vans and trucks must be electric by 2024

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1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

 

So do you have any more encouraging info as Hurricane Elsa bears down on my home dropping the ocean on me? Will maybe be 2nd hurricane in 4 years with Irma's eye coming right over my house. And I don't live within 90 miles of the ocean. People are already panic buying around here. And we still have 4 months to go with hurricane season. More ocean drops coming. 


The topic is California’s EV mandate not the weather.  Back on topic please.

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10 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Hello, AAA?  I could use some help here,,,,,,

 

HRG

AAA-mobile-EV-charger.jpg

Or pick a site next to the person with an F150 powerboost.

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19 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

So do you have any more encouraging info as Hurricane Elsa bears down on my home dropping the ocean on me? Will maybe be 2nd hurricane in 4 years with Irma's eye coming right over my house. And I don't live within 90 miles of the ocean. People are already panic buying around here. And we still have 4 months to go with hurricane season. More ocean drops coming. 

Hope it misses you guys, but that doesn’t look likely now. It looks like it may be a Tropical Storm and not a Hurricane, so at least that would be good. 

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Today, the White House "told U.S. automakers it wants them to back a voluntary target of at least 40% of new vehicles sales as electric by 2030". White House wants U.S automakers to back at least 40% EV target by 2030 -- sources | Reuters

 

This voluntary target is a surprisingly low bar, especially since California will ban the sale of gasoline and diesel powered cars and light trucks only 5 years afterward.

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36 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

Today, the White House "told U.S. automakers it wants them to back a voluntary target of at least 40% of new vehicles sales as electric by 2030". White House wants U.S automakers to back at least 40% EV target by 2030 -- sources | Reuters

 

This voluntary target is a surprisingly low bar, especially since California will ban the sale of gasoline and diesel powered cars and light trucks only 5 years afterward.

 

Sounds realistic to me... about percentage I would guess at. By 2030, auto companies will be building mostly electrics and hybrids in most vehicle class segments. There will still be room for ICE only for some uses IMO. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/29/2021 at 1:52 PM, rperez817 said:

Today, the White House "told U.S. automakers it wants them to back a voluntary target of at least 40% of new vehicles sales as electric by 2030". White House wants U.S automakers to back at least 40% EV target by 2030 -- sources | Reuters

 

This voluntary target is a surprisingly low bar, especially since California will ban the sale of gasoline and diesel powered cars and light trucks only 5 years afterward.

 

White House issued a briefing today with statements from various organizations and individuals about the Biden's administration's efforts involving "clean cars and trucks". Statements on the Biden Administration’s Steps to Strengthen American Leadership on Clean Cars and Trucks | The White House

 

Tweet from President Biden.

 

Example statements.

1. Joint statement from Ford, GM, and Stellantis.

Quote

Today, Ford, GM and Stellantis announce their shared aspiration to achieve sales of 40-50% of annual U.S. volumes of electric vehicles (battery electric, fuel cell and plug-in hybrid vehicles) by 2030 in order to move the nation closer to a zero-emissions future consistent with Paris climate goals.  Our recent product, technology, and investment announcements highlight our collective commitment to be leaders in the U.S. transition to electric vehicles.  This represents a dramatic shift from the U.S. market today that can be achieved only with the timely deployment of the full suite of electrification policies committed to by the Administration in the Build Back Better Plan, including purchase incentives, a comprehensive charging network of sufficient density to support the millions of vehicles these targets represent, investments in R&D, and incentives to expand the electric vehicle manufacturing and supply chains in the United States.  With the UAW at our side in transforming the workforce and partnering with us on this journey, we believe we can strengthen continued American leadership in clean transportation technology through electric vehicle innovation and manufacturing.  We look forward to working with the Biden Administration, Congress and state and local governments to enact policies that will enable these ambitious objectives.

 

2. Statement from UAW.

Quote

We are at a critical time for the auto industry as countries compete to build the vehicles of the future. We are falling behind China and Europe as manufacturers pour billions into growing their markets and expanding their manufacturing. We need to make investments here in the United States.  Fortunately, President Biden recognizes the importance of this moment, and his Build Back Better Plan makes the bold investments in manufacturing, consumer incentives, and infrastructure needed to ensure vehicles of the future are made in our country.  Investments alone are not enough.  Today’s announcement on emissions standards brings more certainty and better planning for the auto industry and UAW member future jobs.  While the UAW notes that the companies have made voluntary commitments on Electric Vehicles, the UAW focus is not on hard deadlines or percentages, but on preserving the wages and benefits that have been the heart and soul of the American middle class.

“We must be ambitious not just about retaining good union jobs, but growing them, and about expanding U.S. manufacturing of electric vehicles, from parts to assembly. It is incumbent that these future jobs will be good-paying American union scale wage and benefit jobs that protect salaries and our critical health and safety standards.  The members of the UAW, current and future, are ready to build these electric cars and trucks and the batteries that go in them. Our members are America’s secret weapon in winning this global race.  That is why, today we stand with the President and support his ambition not just to grow electric vehicles but also our capacity to produce them domestically with good wages and benefits and the right to bargain and urge Congress to seize this opportunity for the sake of working people and our country’s future.

“Any auto industry transition to alternative fueled engines must be paired with passage of the Stabenow Amendment and passage or an agreement to adhere to the policies of the PRO Act to ensure these jobs of the future will protect UAW members, their families, and our American middle class. The Senate needs to pass the PRO Act and get it to the President’s desk for signature.

 

3. Joint Statement of BMW, Ford, Honda, Volkswagen, and Volvo.

Quote

We were proud to stand with California to establish progressive new greenhouse gas regulations, and we remain committed to leading the industry in fighting against climate change. That’s why we support the Administration’s goal of reaching an electric vehicle future and applaud President Biden’s leadership on reducing emissions and investing in critical infrastructure to achieve these reductions. While the California framework companies are driving towards 40-50% of our sales being EVs in the next nine years, bold action from our partners in the federal government is crucial to build consumer demand for electric vehicles and put us on track to achieve the global commitments of the Paris Climate Agreement. That includes a strong nationwide greenhouse gas emissions standard, continued investments in charging infrastructure, and broad consumer incentives for all electric vehicle purchases.

 

4. Statement from California's governor.

Quote

California applauds the Biden Administration’s move to boldly reduce climate pollution from cars, inspired by California’s nation-leading framework. The climate emergency demands no less. Today’s proposal will help to clean the air and create a healthier future for our children and our planet. We look forward to continuing our decades-long collaboration with federal partners to build on California’s clean car leadership and deliver the investments needed to support the nationwide build-out of clean vehicle infrastructure.

Edited by rperez817

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California announced in October 2021 a bill that will ban the sale of gasoline powered lawn, garden, construction, farming, portable generator, and related equipment 25 hp or less in the state by 2024. California will offer incentives for individuals and businesses to purchase Zero Emission replacements. Bill Text - AB-1346 Air pollution: small off-road engines. (ca.gov)

Edited by rperez817

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4 hours ago, rperez817 said:

California announced in October 2021 a bill that will ban the sale of gasoline powered lawn, garden, construction, farming, portable generator, and related equipment 25 hp or less in the state by 2024. California will offer incentives for individuals and businesses to purchase Zero Emission replacements. Bill Text - AB-1346 Air pollution: small off-road engines. (ca.gov)

First thing…come up with an evil acronym “sore” for the problem. Small off road equipment.  Then compare emissions from 2020 when CA shut down the state to make sore a bigger problem than it is.  Next add loopholes so the big boys are exempt (only applies to engines under 25hp).  Top it off with a dose of the technology already exists.

 

By the way, 2024 is the earliest it can take effect.  The wording was 2024 or the earliest it is feasible whichever is later.

 

How much commercial landscaping equipment is available using battery?  Has it grown beyond a few small manufacturers?
Toro hasn’t even brought out a battery powered version of the time cutter 30” wide area mower for consumers.  Largest is a 22”.  Seems premature to me.  But, I don’t follow the industry so there might be a lot coming to market in the next couple of years.

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39 minutes ago, slemke said:

First thing…come up with an evil acronym “sore” for the problem. Small off road equipment.  Then compare emissions from 2020 when CA shut down the state to make sore a bigger problem than it is.  Next add loopholes so the big boys are exempt (only applies to engines under 25hp).  Top it off with a dose of the technology already exists.

 

By the way, 2024 is the earliest it can take effect.  The wording was 2024 or the earliest it is feasible whichever is later.

 

How much commercial landscaping equipment is available using battery?  Has it grown beyond a few small manufacturers?
Toro hasn’t even brought out a battery powered version of the time cutter 30” wide area mower for consumers.  Largest is a 22”.  Seems premature to me.  But, I don’t follow the industry so there might be a lot coming to market in the next couple of years.

 

California doesn't care about that type of thing.

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10 hours ago, slemke said:

First thing…come up with an evil acronym “sore” for the problem. Small off road equipment.  Then compare emissions from 2020 when CA shut down the state to make sore a bigger problem than it is.  Next add loopholes so the big boys are exempt (only applies to engines under 25hp).  Top it off with a dose of the technology already exists.

 

By the way, 2024 is the earliest it can take effect.  The wording was 2024 or the earliest it is feasible whichever is later.

 

How much commercial landscaping equipment is available using battery?  Has it grown beyond a few small manufacturers?
Toro hasn’t even brought out a battery powered version of the time cutter 30” wide area mower for consumers.  Largest is a 22”.  Seems premature to me.  But, I don’t follow the industry so there might be a lot coming to market in the next couple of years.

Jacobsen, E-Go, Gravely all have commercial electric mowers.  Several others are on the horizon.  Electric mowers are already available for home use including some zero turn and lawn tractors.  Trimmers and blowers are already making the switch to battery, even commercial landscape companies, due to ease of use and total cost of operation.

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22 minutes ago, Flying68 said:

Jacobsen, E-Go, Gravely all have commercial electric mowers.  Several others are on the horizon.  Electric mowers are already available for home use including some zero turn and lawn tractors.  Trimmers and blowers are already making the switch to battery, even commercial landscape companies, due to ease of use and total cost of operation.


Electric mowers for home is a no brainer.  You only use it once a week for 1 hour or so.  You don’t even need a 240v charger for that.

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10 hours ago, slemke said:

How much commercial landscaping equipment is available using battery?  

 

My family's landscaping business replaced all gasoline powered equipment with battery powered a couple years ago. We use MeanGreen Vanquish 60" and Evo 74" mowers, handheld equipment from EGO and Ryobi, and are working with Blue Roof Foundation in Dallas and a local shop to build a custom charging trailer. The trailer should be ready for our next season in Spring 2022.

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1 hour ago, akirby said:


Electric mowers for home is a no brainer.  You only use it once a week for 1 hour or so.  You don’t even need a 240v charger for that.

 

Heck, back when I was a kid, my Dad worked for the Sunbeam Corp, EVERYTHING was (corded) electric. Lawn mower, snowblower, you name it.  Sure, maybe I cut a cord in half once in a while.

 

My brother still has our family's 60's-vintage twin-blade like this one.

 

HRG

sunbeam twin-blade.jpg

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I should have said battery powered.

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I have a Mach E, but am shy about electric lawn equipment. I had a Craftsman battery powered lawn mower back in 1998! And it was good for my tiny, little 900 foot starter home's 1/3 acre lot. But it wouldn't hold a charge when I finally moved to a decent sized property, and it was hard to get batteries for (and a Honda tractor was better for the size). But I tried electric trimmers, edgers, chain saws, etc., but the batteries never lasted, and the fly-by-night companies no longer exist to support their products.

 

I have made efforts, though, to ensure that all of my gas powered replacements are 4-cycle, so my emissions are less.

 

I admit I'm a little tempted by Ryobi. The "blue" Ryobi stuff I have still works perfectly with the modern "green" batteries, and Ryobi isn't doing the douchey thing by obsoleting their old stuff. But this is tools, not lawn equipment, and sadly the next replacement decision will have to be compared with "I'm too old for this crap so I'll just pay to have it done."

 

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10 hours ago, akirby said:


Electric mowers for home is a no brainer.  You only use it once a week for 1 hour or so.  You don’t even need a 240v charger for that.

Seems reasonable, but reviews are all over the place as to how long/how much grass you can cut with one.  I was going to get a 22” toro 60v, but I might be borderline on having enough runtime with a single battery and 2 batteries blows the economics of the solution. Then there are my neighbors that whip through cutting their lawns with the 30” toro that is only available in gas.

 

The new ryobi mowers seem decent and even have a made in USA sticker.  Not sure about the plastic deck, though.  I have other 40v ryobi so battery life isn’t an issue.

 

At some point I’ll need to replace my 20 something mtd yard machines because I can’t patch it together anymore.  I’d like to go electric but I’m just not swayed by any of the choices to pull the trigger on one.  Maybe the California mandate will bring something exciting to market at a reasonable price point.

 

 

 

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All this talk about the socialist government/s telling us what to drive, how to mow our lawns, and how we generate our electricity is wearing thin for a lot of people.  I think 2022 will be a real wake up call for the dems and the socialists pushing their green agenda while the nation has a lot more pressing issues to deal with. 

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13 hours ago, Footballfan said:

All this talk about the socialist government/s telling us what to drive, how to mow our lawns, and how we generate our electricity is wearing thin for a lot of people.  I think 2022 will be a real wake up call for the dems and the socialists pushing their green agenda while the nation has a lot more pressing issues to deal with. 

 

So what is more pressing than trying to save our very fragile planet? There is a very thin, fragile atmosphere that circles our planet that is only about 55 miles thick. That is it that protects us from total darkness and no air. Destroy that and this planet will look like Mars. Solar winds will the turn this planet into a lifeless rock.

 

Forget bullshit politics and listen to objective scientists. Here in Florida the Manatees are dying off at alarming rate due to pollution killing its food source. And worsening red tide is ruining the coasts. Wake up alarms all over the place. Not politics, just facts. 

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Forget bullshit politics and listen to objective scientists. Here in Florida the Manatees are dying off at alarming rate due to pollution killing its food source. And worsening red tide is ruining the coasts. Wake up alarms all over the place. Not politics, just facts....tell me exactly what that has to do with Electric cars ? …… that'll cure EVERYTHING right?....

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2 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

So what is more pressing than trying to save our very fragile planet? There is a very thin, fragile atmosphere that circles our planet that is only about 55 miles thick. That is it that protects us from total darkness and no air. Destroy that and this planet will look like Mars. Solar winds will the turn this planet into a lifeless rock.

 

Forget bullshit politics and listen to objective scientists. Here in Florida the Manatees are dying off at alarming rate due to pollution killing its food source. And worsening red tide is ruining the coasts. Wake up alarms all over the place. Not politics, just facts. 

 

I don't have a problem with doing better environmental controls and whatnot, and taking measures to clean up/reduce pollution.

 

What I have a problem with is:

 

TLDR version - Don't artificially limit ourselves on a global stage going after some moving target that the worst offenders are just going to ignore anyway.

 

Longer version - draconian, (relatively) immediate and severe restrictions targeting some unrealistic utopia, meanwhile completely ignoring the limitations of those plans (i.e. what happens when there's no wind, building enough inefficient renewable power, etc), ignoring alternatives (nuclear), ignoring medium-term measures that drastically improve things without completely changing gears and outlawing things (i.e. hybrids and plug ins), and MOST importantly - completely ignoring countries like China, India, etc. that create FARRRR more pollution than we do and continue to INCREASE their pollution outputs.    We could cut 100% of our emissions/pollution - if China increases theirs 200%, you're still negative......

 

 

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2 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

So what is more pressing than trying to save our very fragile planet? There is a very thin, fragile atmosphere that circles our planet that is only about 55 miles thick. That is it that protects us from total darkness and no air. Destroy that and this planet will look like Mars. Solar winds will the turn this planet into a lifeless rock.

 

Forget bullshit politics and listen to objective scientists. Here in Florida the Manatees are dying off at alarming rate due to pollution killing its food source. And worsening red tide is ruining the coasts. Wake up alarms all over the place. Not politics, just facts. 

It will only get worse until China does their part-which they wont.  American factories and jobs are being moved there because aside from the slave labor wages, companies can pollute all they want.  I'll be dammed if I am going to sacrifice anything if China does not do their part. 

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17 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

I don't have a problem with doing better environmental controls and whatnot, and taking measures to clean up/reduce pollution.

 

What I have a problem with is:

 

TLDR version - Don't artificially limit ourselves on a global stage going after some moving target that the worst offenders are just going to ignore anyway.

 

Longer version - draconian, (relatively) immediate and severe restrictions targeting some unrealistic utopia, meanwhile completely ignoring the limitations of those plans (i.e. what happens when there's no wind, building enough inefficient renewable power, etc), ignoring alternatives (nuclear), ignoring medium-term measures that drastically improve things without completely changing gears and outlawing things (i.e. hybrids and plug ins), and MOST importantly - completely ignoring countries like China, India, etc. that create FARRRR more pollution than we do and continue to INCREASE their pollution outputs.    We could cut 100% of our emissions/pollution - if China increases theirs 200%, you're still negative......

 

 

Also the jobs that will be destroyed on this country. 

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electrification is an extremely small band aid on a much, much larger problem...and its a band aid that comes with its own serious baggage ( de-forestation, strip mining, dependence on foreign supply and those wonderful clean tankers and trucks getting said materials to their destinations ). IMO the people preaching its the answer have ulterior motives ( basically the promotion of their own vested interests or those of Companies that regularly contribute to campaign funds.... ) 

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On 10/21/2021 at 5:10 PM, Deanh said:

electrification is an extremely small band aid on a much, much larger problem...and its a band aid that comes with its own serious baggage ( de-forestation, strip mining, dependence on foreign supply and those wonderful clean tankers and trucks getting said materials to their destinations ). IMO the people preaching its the answer have ulterior motives ( basically the promotion of their own vested interests or those of Companies that regularly contribute to campaign funds.... ) 

 

Bingo! It's all about power and control. Do I believe in "climate change"? Absolutely. It's been going on since the earth was formed and will continue long after the last human being has breathed their last breath.

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The whole "climate change" issue is being massaged by the folks after one thing....control.  We talk about the "increasing temperatures" while a few years ago, they were claiming another Ice Age.  This planet is going to evolve through means far outside our control - one volcanic eruption negates the cumulative effects of 20 years of "clean" energy (at the least).  Windmills?  How long does it take a windmill producing to offset the assets and pollution created by the manufacturing process to create it, then develop the site and install it?  And THAT doesn't happen in a vacuum - there's the loss of agricultural usage, the negating of the land's ability to be used for housing - and the wildlife killed by those big blades striking flying birds (which happens a LOT more often than they'll tell you).  Now, let's talk about the lubrication each of those windmills have that require replacement annually.

Oh - and let's not forget the blades on those monsters, made from a non-recyclable material that requires disposal in a landfill....material that will never biodegrade.  Each blade has a finite service life, then must be replaced.

Solar cells?  Dear Sweet Baby Jesus, THAT is a pipe dream that's been chased for over 40 years....and it's still a ponzi scheme of epic proportions.  When you run the numbers, even the major utilities have to admit (through the higher rates for solar-produced power) that there IS no return on the "investment" -  and you have nada if there's no sunshine.  Average productive lifespan of 20 years....then more for the landfill...and more expensive mining/refining/manufacturing to make the replacements.

And what the blazes are the power grids going to do with all the power draw requirements for these EV's on grids that are already running near their maximum load capacity?  

 

And the BIG gorilla in the middle of the room.....just how are they going to make all that additional electricity that's going to be needed......

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