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2022 Ford Mondeo/Fusion Replacement-Ford Evos

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9 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

I guess I'm just tired of all the news every other week that nameplate after nameplate is being thrown to the scrap heap because of profitability.  First sedans, now midsize BEVs, now not getting Evos/Zephyr, etc. etc.

 

I know the argument there are new products like Bronco/Bronco Sport, etc.  But it seems like Ford changes plans way too often, and products get left to rot on the vine over and over again, and then Ford wonders why they don't sell well.

 

I'm sure in a few years we'll look back and laugh when all the new stuff comes out, but lately just seems like it's been continually waiting for "x" to come out then things will be better!

Ford does change plans too often hence the reason I’m taking the believe when I see it approach to 5 new EVS coming to Oakville in the mid 2020s. They secured the 600 million government money so somethings coming. The plan will change again before then I bet! 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, akirby said:


When did the Wrangler fad die out?  Why would Bronco be different?

The same reason the Camaro died out and the Mustang is still here. The Wrangler is the original and has seen continuous production. Ford is reviving the Bronco after giving up on it for so long.

 

And for the record, the 2005 Mustang was also a fad as it sells only half in the USA that it previously sold.

 

I'm just saying that Ford shouldn't open separate dealer networks for Bronco or put too many eggs into this basket.

Edited by atomcat68

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19 minutes ago, atomcat68 said:

The same reason the Camaro died out and the Mustang is still here. The Wrangler is the original and has seen continuous production. Ford is reviving the Bronco after giving up on it for so long.

 

And for the record, the 2005 Mustang was also a fad as it sells only half in the USA that it previously sold.

 

I'm just saying that Ford shouldn't open separate dealer networks for Bronco or put too many eggs into this basket.

 

The 2005 Mustang also didn't have any direct competition and the price of it has gone up quite a bit...nor is it a "low rent" spec car like it has been prior to it being sold internationally. 

Like I said before...Ford didn't really give up on it..they morphed both Broncos into the Explorer and Expedition because the market wanted a four door SUV and it was old school Detroit thinking that new names do better then old names.

There's been internal interest in bringing back the Bronco since the early 2000s, but to sum it up this what torpedoed it:


Explorer tire debacle 2001

Gas prices from 2003-2014
Lack of production space to build it

Lack of interest from management

Even Jim Farley, now the CEO, had questions about the long term Bronco viability after the FJ came out under his watch while with Toyota and how that winded up. 

Some good info you have the time 


 

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1 hour ago, atomcat68 said:

 

I'm just saying that Ford shouldn't open separate dealer networks for Bronco or put too many eggs into this basket.


I agree with this.  I don’t think you’ll see dealers making big investments there.  Maybe repurposing existing unused buildings.

 

But not sure I agree with your definition of fad.

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5 hours ago, atomcat68 said:

The same reason the Camaro died out and the Mustang is still here. The Wrangler is the original and has seen continuous production. Ford is reviving the Bronco after giving up on it for so long.

 

And for the record, the 2005 Mustang was also a fad as it sells only half in the USA that it previously sold.

 

I'm just saying that Ford shouldn't open separate dealer networks for Bronco or put too many eggs into this basket.

 

There you go....maybe CUVs are nothing more than a fad that will wear out over time.

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1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

 

There you go....maybe CUVs are nothing more than a fad that will wear out over time.

I think CUVs will continue to be a thing, but when Electric Cars dominate, they will all go the same speed, handle the same, have the same features and such. Then Cars will be nothing more that appliances or cell phones with wheels. All the magic that made cars special will be bleached out and Broncos and Mustangs won't matter anymore. There will be far fewer brands because the differences will be small and there are too many brands as it is. This is what I fear the market will come to.

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3 minutes ago, atomcat68 said:

I think CUVs will continue to be a thing, but when Electric Cars dominate, they will all go the same speed, handle the same, have the same features and such. Then Cars will be nothing more that appliances or cell phones with wheels. All the magic that made cars special will be bleached out and Broncos and Mustangs won't matter anymore. There will be far fewer brands because the differences will be small and there are too many brands as it is. This is what I fear the market will come to.

 

Let's see.....coupes became fads, convertibles became fads, station wagons became fads, minivans became fads, sedans became fads, hatchbacks became fads, and now will drivers get tired of their generic, look alike CUVs in time? The only body style that hasn't faded over time is a pickup. I've lived long enough to see so many styles go full circle. Clean shaven used to be in, and now beards are popular again. Someday many will be paying thousands to remove their tattoos.

And someday drivers will turn in their CUV for something that everyone else is not driving. I know this will be my last CUV. No more after this one is paid off.

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8 hours ago, atomcat68 said:

The same reason the Camaro died out and the Mustang is still here. The Wrangler is the original and has seen continuous production. Ford is reviving the Bronco after giving up on it for so long.

 

And for the record, the 2005 Mustang was also a fad as it sells only half in the USA that it previously sold.

 

I'm just saying that Ford shouldn't open separate dealer networks for Bronco or put too many eggs into this basket.

 

Dealers are the ones that asked about standalone Bronco outlets.  Not Ford.  So it's entirely up to them whether they want to put that money into building those.  And I see those only being in big markets as something that extends beyond a typical dealer showroom - accessories seller, a hangout place, meeting place for clubs, etc.

 

1 hour ago, atomcat68 said:

I think CUVs will continue to be a thing, but when Electric Cars dominate, they will all go the same speed, handle the same, have the same features and such. Then Cars will be nothing more that appliances or cell phones with wheels. All the magic that made cars special will be bleached out and Broncos and Mustangs won't matter anymore. There will be far fewer brands because the differences will be small and there are too many brands as it is. This is what I fear the market will come to.

 

I think you're underestimating style cycles (see below).

 

I agree the AV aspect does play into this, but people will still want the "cool looking" pod vs. the appliance pod.

 

56 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Let's see.....coupes became fads, convertibles became fads, station wagons became fads, minivans became fads, sedans became fads, hatchbacks became fads, and now will drivers get tired of their generic, look alike CUVs in time? The only body style that hasn't faded over time is a pickup. I've lived long enough to see so many styles go full circle. Clean shaven used to be in, and now beards are popular again. Someday many will be paying thousands to remove their tattoos.

And someday drivers will turn in their CUV for something that everyone else is not driving. I know this will be my last CUV. No more after this one is paid off.

 

This.  Things go in cycles - you see it in fashion and all sorts of things every few decades, styles come back.  wagons were popular, then people didn't want their parents' wagon, then minivans worked, then they didn't, then cars, now SUVs/crossovers, and we're back to where we were in the 30s/40s in raised wagons.  

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Posted (edited)

Things go in cycles but not everything comes back in fashion. Minivans aren't going to make a come back into the mainstream and neither will 2 door sedans or hatchbacks. But they are still there as a niche.

 

What will cycle in and out of mainstream in the future is just different degree of SUVness. Right now we are seeing people embracing really rugged looking SUVs while also pivoting towards sporty fastback SUVs. 5 or 10 years from now, it will be some other kind of SUV in favor but it will still be a SUV. Low riding sedan's days are over just like wagon (and I say this as a wagon owner... probably the only one on blueovalforum)  - improvements in aerodynamics have eliminated the MPG penalty associated with higher ride height and dual motor EVs are more efficient than single motor EVs so AWD is going to be the norm. The battery tray and pedestrian impact safety standards makes car design difficult but SUV form factor is easy to hide the higher hood/beltline and bulky side profile. etc. We've gone past the point where the car and SUV distinction makes sense... all cars will take the shape of SUV going forward, except for a few niche like sports cars which will still favor low to the ground stance for better handling. 

Edited by bzcat

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Walk around by Wheelsboy - 

 

 

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23 hours ago, bzcat said:

Things go in cycles but not everything comes back in fashion. Minivans aren't going to make a come back into the mainstream and neither will 2 door sedans or hatchbacks. But they are still there as a niche.

 

 

I've got to disagree somewhat with this statement. I was behind a Nissan Kicks on the way home from the grocery store. The passengers was basically at eye level with me in my Fusion. I've noticed this with some Mazdas and the Toyota C-HR, too.  They have roof racks and a few other design cues, but these are for all intents and purposes hatchbacks. Maybe Ford should revisit the Focus Active(and Fiesta Active) for North America. If the Focus name is too damaged, call it something else. Escort would fit in with all the other "E" crossovers.   Ford could sell 70-80K/year, I'm sure they could find the capacity somewhere.(LAP?) This would involve minimal investment on Ford's part.

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56 minutes ago, AGR said:

 

I've got to disagree somewhat with this statement. I was behind a Nissan Kicks on the way home from the grocery store. The passengers was basically at eye level with me in my Fusion. I've noticed this with some Mazdas and the Toyota C-HR, too.  They have roof racks and a few other design cues, but these are for all intents and purposes hatchbacks. Maybe Ford should revisit the Focus Active(and Fiesta Active) for North America. If the Focus name is too damaged, call it something else. Escort would fit in with all the other "E" crossovers.   Ford could sell 70-80K/year, I'm sure they could find the capacity somewhere.(LAP?) This would involve minimal investment on Ford's part.

 

I have a Focus Active....it's an Escape hybrid and it gets much better fuel mileage than the Focus ever did and a better trans to boot. So IMO bringing over the Focus Active would be a waste of money when you can buy an Escape SE for around $22,000. Now there is room for an Outback competitor with AWD and hybrid option with over 75 cubic ft. of cargo room and around 40mpg.

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16 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

I have a Focus Active....it's an Escape hybrid and it gets much better fuel mileage than the Focus ever did and a better trans to boot. So IMO bringing over the Focus Active would be a waste of money when you can buy an Escape SE for around $22,000. Now there is room for an Outback competitor with AWD and hybrid option with over 75 cubic ft. of cargo room and around 40mpg.

 

The Escape is 10-12" longer. If Jeep can have a Cherokee and a Compass..

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, AGR said:

 

The Escape is 10-12" longer. If Jeep can have a Cherokee and a Compass..

Escape is roughly 8” longer than gen 4 Focus Active Hatchback but is 3” shorter than the Focus Active Wagon.


Regardless of that, I get your point in terms of Ford vs Jeep products.....

Edited by jpd80

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Not bad (except the horrid c pillar treatment). Bz, do you think this might be harbinger for future Ford design in the U.S., much the same as the Zephyr has now been identified an Lincoln's design direction?

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I have no idea whether this new design language will come to the US but Fiesta facelift prototype has already been spotted with this front end  so it will be in Europe for sure. Less certain about US because it's all about trucks in the US and heritage models like Bronco and Mustang that have their own signature looks and styling elements. 

 

If anything, I hope Ford US adopts this new upscale wall of screen interior. The tacked on screens look they are using really looks antiquated... so 2015 design aesthetic. Like it or not, China now drives global taste in vehicles (like the US did before) and wall of screen is the future. Every brand will eventually adopt it in some form.  

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Yeh, that C-pillar is pretty bad.  They had a winner with the Mustang Mach-E C-pillar, I guess they didn't want a direct copy?  But man, woof.

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1 hour ago, bzcat said:

 Less certain about US because it's all about trucks in the US and heritage models like Bronco and Mustang that have their own signature looks and styling elements.   

 

Not really - if we assume (not necessarily a good idea) that Ford will have companion models to the just-announced Lincoln EV lineup, that would potentially be: Escape, Edge, Explorer and maybe Expedition class vehicle (although that one might hew more towards truck styling). 

 

So - at least 3 vehicles that will need a design direction to establish themselves and Ford as a product line. I see some good in Evos, but that C pillar is a non starter.

 

 

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2 hours ago, bzcat said:

I have no idea whether this new design language will come to the US but Fiesta facelift prototype has already been spotted with this front end  so it will be in Europe for sure. Less certain about US because it's all about trucks in the US and heritage models like Bronco and Mustang that have their own signature looks and styling elements. 

 

If anything, I hope Ford US adopts this new upscale wall of screen interior. The tacked on screens look they are using really looks antiquated... so 2015 design aesthetic. Like it or not, China now drives global taste in vehicles (like the US did before) and wall of screen is the future. Every brand will eventually adopt it in some form.  

 

I don't really understand the full width screen - like what is the passenger really going to do with a screen?

 

It also seems like a lazy design choice to me - if the whole dash is a screen, is there really that much to design?

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3 hours ago, Anthony said:

Yeh, that C-pillar is pretty bad.  They had a winner with the Mustang Mach-E C-pillar, I guess they didn't want a direct copy?  But man, woof.


Better than the Mazda 3.....

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

I don't really understand the full width screen - like what is the passenger really going to do with a screen?

 

It also seems like a lazy design choice to me - if the whole dash is a screen, is there really that much to design?

Increase commonality between right and left hand drive vehicle?

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4 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

I don't really understand the full width screen - like what is the passenger really going to do with a screen?

 

It also seems like a lazy design choice to me - if the whole dash is a screen, is there really that much to design?

 

Yes, I agree. Overkill and huge distraction. Also, I prefer switchgear for volume, tuning, and HVAC controls. Guess they are getting ready for Automated Driving with full width screens. 

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