EV Transition-Can Dealers handle it?

[akirby]

9 hours ago, Flying68 said:

You would think the finance office would have done a decent job of telling the customers what the monthly payment would be and get a general sense of if they would qualify.  That said, circumstances can change for many people in the 6+ months it took to actually deliver from the order dates.

Its just the sales person not the finance office and normally they don’t care since whatever is ordered can usually be sold to someone else.

[Gurgeh]

4 hours ago, sullynd said:

The finance office doesn’t get involved until the day you purchase the vehicle, not reserve, not order. 

When I signed the price agreement (straight-up MSRP) for the MB GLE 450 replacement for my Nautilus coming off of lease, I met with the finance guy who wanted me to fill out credit check papers. I said no, that I would either be paying cash or a one-payment lease as I hate monthly payments. He replied ok but asked to see my bank account balance, which I was fine to share, and everything was good. That said, it will be many months before that GLE actually gets built in Alabama and makes its way to the dealer. My situation shouldn't change but I can see that it might for some people.

[sullynd]

I reserved my Mach-E in November 2019. Ordered it in June 2020, received it June 2021. They did not discuss monthly payment, nor run my credit, until the day I picked it up. 
 

Unless your MB GLE 450 is used, I don’t believe you bought from a Ford dealer. 
 

41 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

When I signed the price agreement (straight-up MSRP) for the MB GLE 450 replacement for my Nautilus coming off of lease, I met with the finance guy who wanted me to fill out credit check papers. I said no, that I would either be paying cash or a one-payment lease as I hate monthly payments. He replied ok but asked to see my bank account balance, which I was fine to share, and everything was good. That said, it will be many months before that GLE actually gets built in Alabama and makes its way to the dealer. My situation shouldn't change but I can see that it might for some people.

 

[fuzzymoomoo]

On 12/25/2021 at 7:03 AM, sullynd said:

The finance office doesn’t get involved until the day you purchase the vehicle, not reserve, not order. 

Perhaps that's a practice that needs to change then just to protect themselves. 
 

Or, better idea, the salesperson does a better job of realistically explaining what the payments will be. Every salesperson I've ever dealt with has known how to at least ballpark what payments will be and the most "off" the worst one was was overestimating by $10/month. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by fuzzymoomoo

[akirby]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Perhaps that's a practice that needs to change then just to protect themselves. 

Assuming it’s a vehicle they can easily sell to someone else, why would they care?

 

All Ford cares about is keeping dealers from faking orders to get more allocation.

[Deanh]

On ‎12‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 3:27 PM, AGR said:

Jeez, Deanh, give it rest. If you would look outside your little world, you'd see that the new car buying experience is about as popular as a root canal. Don't bother responding; I won't read it, and your posts don't change the public perception, in fact they reinforce it. 

apologies for the reality check...nothing Ive stated is inaccurate....don't like it, youre welcome to block. Fully agree buying a car can be a right royal pain, but an awful lot of that can be self inflicted, or basic lousy dealerships...that said, the flip side is sometimes selling isn't all roses either...far from it...from either intrusive Corporate micro management...or self centered customers....and FYI AGR...I treat customers EXACTLY the same way Id like to be treated myself..and without REPEAT customers and referrals I would be out of this business toot sweet...so, Im glad Im reinforcing something right...

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Deanh

[Deanh]

On ‎12‎/‎24‎/‎2021 at 9:56 PM, Flying68 said:

You would think the finance office would have done a decent job of telling the customers what the monthly payment would be and get a general sense of if they would qualify.  That said, circumstances can change for many people in the 6+ months it took to actually deliver from the order dates.

not the case...you don't ballpark payments for someone prior to them placing their order...besides that, a majority are ordered online per the customer. I would lay the fault at not being particularly astute at mathematics....you would be surprised at the amount of people that think they can get a $500 a month payment on a $50k car with little to nothing down...

[Deanh]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2021 at 8:26 AM, Gurgeh said:

When I signed the price agreement (straight-up MSRP) for the MB GLE 450 replacement for my Nautilus coming off of lease, I met with the finance guy who wanted me to fill out credit check papers. I said no, that I would either be paying cash or a one-payment lease as I hate monthly payments. He replied ok but asked to see my bank account balance, which I was fine to share, and everything was good. That said, it will be many months before that GLE actually gets built in Alabama and makes its way to the dealer. My situation shouldn't change but I can see that it might for some people.

don't know how he will circumvent the fact its necessary to have a copy of your credit application in the deal irrespective of how you buy the car...Big Brother keeps a wary eye on money flow to curb money laundering....heck...we have to literally run an OFAC on EVERYONE  ( The Office of Foreign Assets Control ("OFAC") of the US Department of the Treasury administers and enforces economic and trade sanctions based on US foreign policy and national security goals against targeted foreign countries and regimes, terrorists, international narcotics traffickers, )

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Assuming it’s a vehicle they can easily sell to someone else, why would they care?

 

All Ford cares about is keeping dealers from faking orders to get more allocation.

To avoid the hassle of all this paperwork they’re requiring. It might weed out some customers but those that are bargain basement shopping are usually going to Kia or Nissan anyway so I can't imagine any Ford dealer would be losing sleep over them. 

[akirby]

45 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

To avoid the hassle of all this paperwork they’re requiring. It might weed out some customers but those that are bargain basement shopping are usually going to Kia or Nissan anyway so I can't imagine any Ford dealer would be losing sleep over them. 

I think the problem is dealers did a lot of these deals without the paperwork and now are scrambling to get it on old transactions.  If you know you need the documentation you just have them sign it when you refund the deposit.

[Deanh]

17 minutes ago, akirby said:

I think the problem is dealers did a lot of these deals without the paperwork and now are scrambling to get it on old transactions.  If you know you need the documentation you just have them sign it when you refund the deposit.

true...there were a lot of cases where Ford notified us AFTER vehicles were already ordered exactly what the stipulations were. Its better now, but when the system was initiated it most definitely wasn't buttoned down. I can personally attest to being told to get copies of deposits, e-mail address's and copies of Drivers licenses, months after the order was placed....and now...if the order is sold / registered differently than the order was placed, unless we can provide solid proof of the reasoning, our allocation can be cut....

[Flying68]

1 hour ago, Deanh said:

not the case...you don't ballpark payments for someone prior to them placing their order...besides that, a majority are ordered online per the customer. I would lay the fault at not being particularly astute at mathematics....you would be surprised at the amount of people that think they can get a $500 a month payment on a $50k car with little to nothing down...

Guess I need to remember what an average consumer thinks vs the crowd I hang with (engineers). I have never gone shopping for a vehicle without knowing what my down and monthly will be for a given price.

[Deanh]

14 minutes ago, Flying68 said:

Guess I need to remember what an average consumer thinks vs the crowd I hang with (engineers). I have never gone shopping for a vehicle without knowing what my down and monthly will be for a given price.

lost art Flying68... its relatively simple when you think about it...if you are aware of your credit ( another pre-requisite concerning potential rate ) then its simple multiplication. Sure would save some a lot of anguish at the time of purchase...let alone the actual amount of time a transaction takes...

[Deanh]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

Assuming it’s a vehicle they can easily sell to someone else, why would they care?

 

All Ford cares about is keeping dealers from faking orders to get more allocation.

As much as I would love to believe this 100% I take it with a grain of salt. Two of the largest Dealers around here literally have Broncos front line ready to sell ( the very same dealers were at the forefront of some REALLY questionable mis-leading advertising )...funny how they have had several orders fall through....and I truly doubt, even if they were caught red handed, Ford would punish them with allocation cutbacks....they move too much product for Ford...now, if they were smaller establishments Id have to say Ford WOULD punish them.....

Edited December 27, 2021 by Deanh

[silvrsvt]

On 12/27/2021 at 6:13 PM, Deanh said:

As much as I would love to believe this 100% I take it with a grain of salt. Two of the largest Dealers around here literally have Broncos front line ready to sell ( the very same dealers were at the forefront of some REALLY questionable mis-leading advertising )...funny how they have had several orders fall through....and I truly doubt, even if they were caught red handed, Ford would punish them with allocation cutbacks....they move too much product for Ford...now, if they were smaller establishments Id have to say Ford WOULD punish them.....

 

How are you defining larger dealerships? Ones that are owned by a large conglomerate like Lithia or what?

 

Given how fast the Bronco is selling, I don't think any dealership, large or small would have an issue moving them, if another lost allocation. I don't see it being a huge impact, but it it will be some sort of impact to them.

 

Plus given the longer this goes on-the demand goes away for various reasons-the prices will drop accordingly. 

[akirby]

On 12/27/2021 at 6:13 PM, Deanh said:

As much as I would love to believe this 100% I take it with a grain of salt. Two of the largest Dealers around here literally have Broncos front line ready to sell ( the very same dealers were at the forefront of some REALLY questionable mis-leading advertising )...funny how they have had several orders fall through....and I truly doubt, even if they were caught red handed, Ford would punish them with allocation cutbacks....they move too much product for Ford...now, if they were smaller establishments Id have to say Ford WOULD punish them.....

I wouldn’t be surprised If those dealers are now struggling to document those lost customers based on audits.  The fact that they have that many to sell says they have huge ADMs.

 

I don’t think Ford will cut their regular allocation but I bet they cut their incremental allocations that were based on reserved orders so that they end up with the same number they would have gotten without the orders.

[Chrisgb]

Maybe Ford should get in on the gold rush. Instead of pulling allocation, Ford charges the dealer the ATP the unit sells for, minus ~8%. You sell a MSRP $45,000 Bronco for $92,000, dealer cost is $92,000 - 8% ($7360) = $84,640 Invoice.

 

[fuzzymoomoo]

12 minutes ago, Chrisgb said:

Maybe Ford should get in on the gold rush. Instead of pulling allocation, Ford charges the dealer the ATP the unit sells for, minus ~8%. You sell a MSRP $45,000 Bronco for $92,000, dealer cost is $92,000 - 8% ($7360) = $84,640 Invoice.

 

That's a lawsuit waiting to happen 

[akirby]

40 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

That's a lawsuit waiting to happen 

And one the dealer would win in about 2 seconds.

[jpd80]

That’s why manufacturers prefer to sell a richer trim mix in the first twelve months, it’s a legal way of increasing their revenue without being seen to shift the goal posts on MSRP.  
 

and besides, Ford already has the cost of unused incentives built into most of its prices anyway, so they’re already miles ahead with charging full MSRP. 
 

I vaguely remember a story where Cadillac dealers went to GM and said we can’t sell the alpha based CTS for the MSRP you’ve set, it’s $9k more than the Sigma CTS’s MSRP.

Edited December 29, 2021 by jpd80

[ice-capades]

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

That’s why manufacturers prefer to sell a richer trim mix in the first twelve months, it’s a legal way of increasing their revenue without being seen to shift the goal posts on MSRP. 

 

The first-year sales mix traditionally leans heavily to the higher trim models to satisfy the demand from the image conscience buyers, etc. 

[Deanh]

5 hours ago, Chrisgb said:

Maybe Ford should get in on the gold rush. Instead of pulling allocation, Ford charges the dealer the ATP the unit sells for, minus ~8%. You sell a MSRP $45,000 Bronco for $92,000, dealer cost is $92,000 - 8% ($7360) = $84,640 Invoice....maybe they should have treated the Broncos the same as the GT and a

 

yep, that's a tad ludicrous...but I wonder if youd see as many addendums if there was an acceptable profit margin in the vehicle to begin with...and Ford wasn't witnessing Private parties e-baying their ordered units for up to $120k....perhaps a disclosure forbidding sale for two years ala GT should have been implemented....

[Deanh]

6 hours ago, akirby said:

I wouldn’t be surprised If those dealers are now struggling to document those lost customers based on audits.  The fact that they have that many to sell says they have huge ADMs.

 

I don’t think Ford will cut their regular allocation but I bet they cut their incremental allocations that were based on reserved orders so that they end up with the same number they would have gotten without the orders.

Im quite sure they really don't give a crap and feel basically untouchable due to their volumes....I fully believe Ford turns a blind eye...

[akirby]

57 minutes ago, Deanh said:

Im quite sure they really don't give a crap and feel basically untouchable due to their volumes....I fully believe Ford turns a blind eye...

So why are they doing audits if they don’t care?

[rmc523]

3 hours ago, Deanh said:

yep, that's a tad ludicrous...but I wonder if youd see as many addendums if there was an acceptable profit margin in the vehicle to begin with...and Ford wasn't witnessing Private parties e-baying their ordered units for up to $120k....perhaps a disclosure forbidding sale for two years ala GT should have been implemented....

 

With a mass produced vehicle like Bronco, no way that'd go over well with customers.