UAW Demands 46% Pay Hike

[hllywd]

On 10/16/2023 at 6:37 PM, tbone said:

What an incredibly obtuse statement by Fain. I absolutely would not want him negotiating for me. Bill Ford has more money than he knows what to do with so if Ford closed today he is going to be ok, but his name is on the door and I can assure you that he wants to see the company succeed along with those that work there.  Corporate greed is a cop out statement as if Ford is some monolithic entity consuming all the resources and leaving the peons with nothing.  So who actually benefits from the supposed greed?   It’s not like one person gets to keep all the profit. What an F’n clown.

Fain is a clown! And he's catering to the participation trophy generation who thinks all they have to do is show up and get paid.
 

These knuckleheads don't understand how capitalism works. All they see is profit and think they're entitled to those profits. But then the company can't hire more, they can't do research for new products, that would have no money to build new products, etc Instead, they follow idiots like AOC and Bernie Sanders who promote socialism.
 

I was fighting a losing battle trying to get my kids to understand that socialism is bad and has failed everywhere it's been tried. Then they were given group assignments in school. Both of my kids did the majority of the work because that valued their "A". When they came home complaining about having to do all the work but everyone receiving the same grade I told them now you understand socialism. ?

[fuzzymoomoo]

8 minutes ago, hllywd said:

in school.

 

There’s your first problem 

[fuzzymoomoo]

4 hours ago, hllywd said:

Seems like we've gotten a majority of what we were looking for and haven't seen any concessions. Take the win!

Shawn Fain is incapable of setting his inflated ego aside 

[ice-capades]

The following article was published in today's Las Vegas Review-Journal and is provided for informational purposes only.

 

COMMENTARY: Will UAW Rank-and-File Tolerate Their Leader's Extremism?

https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/letters/commentary-will-uaw-rank-and-file-tolerate-their-leaders-extremism-2923638/?utm_campaign=widget&utm_medium=topnews&utm_source=opinion&utm_term=COMMENTARY%3A Will UAW rank and file tolerate their leader’s extremism%3F

 

 

Las Vegas Review-Journal_2023-10-18_Will UAW Rank-and-File Tolerate Leader's Extremism.pdf

Edited October 18, 2023 by ice-capades
Additional Content

[Chrisgb]

33 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

The following article was published in today's Las Vegas Review-Journal and is provided for informational purposes only.

 

COMMENTARY: Will UAW Rank-and-File Tolerate Their Leader's Extremism?

https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/letters/commentary-will-uaw-rank-and-file-tolerate-their-leaders-extremism-2923638/?utm_campaign=widget&utm_medium=topnews&utm_source=opinion&utm_term=COMMENTARY%3A Will UAW rank and file tolerate their leader’s extremism%3F

 

 

Las Vegas Review-Journal_2023-10-18_Will UAW Rank-and-File Tolerate Leader's Extremism.pdf

Alarming.

UAW Members, Please understand that even if you settle, keeping Fain in any role could have a negative effect in the marketplace.

People may begin to question how many of the UAW leadership and membership and what proportion of your dues may be supporting terrorist-think agendas, real or imagined, and buy a foreign nameplate? Maybe it's time to decertify the UAW and form guild or new union that has its members' workplace interests exclusively, and if some members are radical left in their individual beliefs, then so be it.

 

[blazerdude20]

Wow. How can UAW rank and file sit there be ok with Fain representing all of them? 
 

I have a lightning order that just shipped. I am thinking I will hold off until any Ford purchase until he is gone. Might just end up with a new Tundra after all. I refuse to support a racist and anti-Semite. I guarantee there are many more (liberal or conservative) who will act in kind to this. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by blazerdude20

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, blazerdude20 said:

Wow. How can UAW rank and file sit there be ok with Fain representing all of them? 

I personally never was. I was never anti union because there are some benefits for sure. It’s nice to have some kind of representation when the company is trying to skirt rules or add to jobs with little warning and/or training. That being said this whole process has very much turned me off to the union almost entirely. If Michigan hadn’t overturned the right to work laws I would more than likely be asking for my papers. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by fuzzymoomoo

[ice-capades]

24 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I personally never was. I was never anti union because there are some benefits for sure. It’s nice to have some kind of representation when the company is trying to skirt rules or add to jobs with little warning and/or training. That being said this whole process has very much turned me off to the union almost entirely. If Michigan hadn’t overturned the right to work laws I would more than likely be asking for my papers. 

 

You contribute a lot to the BOF community from your perspective. I just want to acknowledge publicly how much your input is appreciated. Thank you!

[tbone]

That story was INCREDIBLY alarming to me!  I had no idea that UAW had people with those ideals in their leadership structure. I want no part of supporting those kinds of positions.  Those aren’t American ideals.  I would really like to know how many UAW members think that way, because that could h av e a real impact and my future purchasing plans as I don’t want to benefit them.  

Edited October 18, 2023 by tbone
Wrong post.

[GearheadGrrrl]

Keep in mind that's not news but an opinion piece.

[tbone]

UAW SAYS IT CAN OUTLAST FORD AFTER KENTUCKY WALKOUT: VIDEO
https://fordauthority.com/2023/10/uaw-says-it-can-outlast-ford-after-kentucky-walkout-video/ (https://fordauthority.com/2023/10/uaw-says-it-can-outlast-ford-after-kentucky-walkout-video/)

 

I say lock them out now, and start the replacement process. What’s the point of waiting any longer if this is their position.  

[akirby]

25 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Keep in mind that's not news but an opinion piece.

Seemed to be a lot of disturbing facts in there which are easily verified (or disproven).  

[akirby]

12 minutes ago, tbone said:

UAW SAYS IT CAN OUTLAST FORD AFTER KENTUCKY WALKOUT: VIDEO
https://fordauthority.com/2023/10/uaw-says-it-can-outlast-ford-after-kentucky-walkout-video/ (https://fordauthority.com/2023/10/uaw-says-it-can-outlast-ford-after-kentucky-walkout-video/)

 

I say lock them out now, and start the replacement process. What’s the point of waiting any longer if this is their position.  

Lock them out and give them a 5 day deadline to take the offer back for a vote.  Make it hurt everybody and see how much pressure the members can put on leadership.  Then start replacements if necessary.

[GearheadGrrrl]

36 minutes ago, akirby said:

Lock them out and give them a 5 day deadline to take the offer back for a vote.  Make it hurt everybody and see how much pressure the members can put on leadership.  Then start replacements if necessary.

UAWs lawyers would love a lockout, would put Ford on the hook for millions in pay. As for hiring scabs, noticed the help wanted signs everywhere?

[tbone]

23 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

UAWs lawyers would love a lockout, would put Ford on the hook for millions in pay. As for hiring scabs, noticed the help wanted signs everywhere?

To be clear, you believe the UAW is bargaining in good faith?

[Deanh]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Lock them out and give them a 5 day deadline to take the offer back for a vote.  Make it hurt everybody and see how much pressure the members can put on leadership.  Then start replacements if necessary.

sad if it comes to that..but one way to stop the insanity that borders on "bullying" powered by mob mentality...Fain thinks he has power in numbers...Ill restate my initial comment...:"who exactly works for who?"....

[akirby]

2 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

UAWs lawyers would love a lockout, would put Ford on the hook for millions in pay. As for hiring scabs, noticed the help wanted signs everywhere?

Ford has the same right to lock them out as the union has to strike.  I think half the workers might even cross the line.

[hllywd]

5 hours ago, akirby said:

Lock them out and give them a 5 day deadline to take the offer back for a vote.  Make it hurt everybody and see how much pressure the members can put on leadership.  Then start replacements if necessary.

You might be surprised at how many of us in the inside agree with this.

[hllywd]

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/uaw-members-grow-weary-five-weeks-into-strike-supply-starts-to-thin?mibextid=Zxz2cZ
 

Channel 2 (Detroit) just had an interview with strikers at Michigan Assembly. I like what this man said; "take what you can before you lose what you got!" He also said everyone was gung ho the first week but now into the fifth week they're ready to go back to work.

[jpd80]

You would think that if an offer by Ford meets or exceeds a whole bunch of checkpoints,

that the UAW should be compelled to take it to a vote…..

 

Since there is no legislation controlling bargaining, maybe the next step for Ford is a lockout,

it’s sad when it comes to this because nobody wins, what if this ends up in some US plants closing?

 

My concern is that regular members are the ones losing money in the hopes of better conditions 

but what happens when they finally see that some UAW terms are unrealistic and that they have

been out on strike with discernible improvement in those conditions?

Edited October 19, 2023 by jpd80

[akirby]

I did a little research.  If this was a strike over unfair labor practices then Ford would be required to hire back the strikers when the strike ends.  But since this is an economic strike over pay and benefits Ford is not required to hire them back.  
 

I think ford has to declare that they’ve made their best and final offer and then they can start lockouts.

 

This is clearly about maintaining and growing the UAW power structure and not about doing what’s best for the workers.

[fuzzymoomoo]

9 minutes ago, akirby said:

This is clearly about maintaining and growing the UAW power structure and not about doing what’s best for the workers.

No it’s not, it’s about economic and social justice, have you not been listening ?

[AM222]

10 hours ago, jpd80 said:

but what happens when they finally see that some UAW terms are unrealistic and that they have

been out on strike with discernible improvement in those conditions?

Sandy Munro tried to explain the consequences of these unrealistic demands and also gave a brief history lesson. 
"unfortunately what the UAW is demanding from the automakers would be harmful to the US economy if met and acquiescing to demands that would result in higher inflation and lower employment and economic growth. The economic growth is going to come from the people like Toyota - no union, Honda - no union, Tesla - no union, and a whole bunch of Chinese guys that are dying to get in here and they will because the American people are going to look for low-cost electric vehicles in the not-too-distant future"

"you guys that are in the Union right now, you voted them in maybe you might want to think about your long-term ability to stay in a company because all the companies regardless of what anybody says are basically a house of cards, somebody pulls a card out and a whole thing's going to come tumbling down. Don't believe me? Get a history book go back and look what happened from 1979 until today and look at how everything fell apart"

- https://www.youtube.com/embed/6CMFRtFksjo?si=M-ysL11ZK-uxCR-K

[Bob Rosadini]

18 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

UAWs lawyers would love a lockout, would put Ford on the hook for millions in pay. As for hiring scabs, noticed the help wanted signs everywhere?

How would a lock out put Ford on the hook for millions in pay.? Does put a huge hurt on Fain's strike fund though.  

[Flying68]

19 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

UAWs lawyers would love a lockout, would put Ford on the hook for millions in pay. As for hiring scabs, noticed the help wanted signs everywhere?

 

54 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

How would a lock out put Ford on the hook for millions in pay.? Does put a huge hurt on Fain's strike fund though.  

If there is no operating labor contract (i.e. it has expired) 3 things can happen 1. continue working under the existing agreement; 2. labor can initiate a strike; or 3. the company can lock out covered employees.  There would be no back pay or penalty as the existing labor agreement is expired.  Anything negotiated in the new agreement is separate.  What is unusual about this is that the UAW is not fully on strike, like they decided that most employees like their jobs and want to work but realize if they did that, the agreement would never get near their demands.  I basically see no alternative for the big three other than to start locking out labor, especially if the selected plant strikes bring work to a halt.  The alternative is that they could layoff workers at those other plants instead and because there is no operating agreement, they wouldn't necessarily need to ever hire them back either.