630land Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 (edited) Imagine all the self driving cars that stop suddenly, and the riders are on the phones trying to contact Tech Support, and on hold. Like trying to fix home computer or whatever. Will be fun. Yeah they're coming, but don't expect a "perfect world". Edited April 25, 2018 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 Imagine all the self driving cars that stop suddenly, and the riders are on the phones trying to contact Tech Support, and on hold. Like trying to fix home computer or whatever. Will be fun. Yeah they're coming, but don't expect a "perfect world". Have you tried turning it off and turning it on again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 Yeah right. There will be a "autonomous vehicle insurance surcharge" required to have one. Why would there be a surcharge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 Why would there be a surcharge? Uh because otherwise the insurance companies all go out of business. They'll find some way to keep their slice of the money pie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jniffen Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 The IT Crowd - Hello IT Embedded The IT Crowd - Truest moment about tech support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Lawyers will not be the winners here - less accidents will mean less lawsuits. Other "losers" will be body shops and people waiting for organ transplants. Autonomous cars are coming and will result in less accidents. Uh right-when the car makes the decision to hit five people at the bus stop vs taking the hit from the car crossing over the center line. Again not saying it won't happen-but why not at a measured pace??? and agree- the minor fender benders caused by inattention will i'm sure go down-but I say, learn by gaining experience with relatively simple crash avoidance systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Why would there be a surcharge? Kind of like when people started driving more efficient vehicles and less tax revenue coming in. Someone thought charging a per mile tax might be a good idea. If they can't get you one way, they'll come up with something else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_SF Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 The main economic driver for autonomous cars is the amount of money spent to pay drivers. In trucking, in Taxi, in Limo / Uber. Uber reportedly pays somewhere near 75% of the fare to the driver. This includes car ownership and maintenance, but at least 50% of the fare cost is purely driver cost. If software could replace all those drivers, an Uber (and Taxi, and Limo) rides would cost half as much. At that kind of cost, it would be more economical for most people in metro areas not to own cars at all. Of course there will be auto owners who want their own self-driving cars, and others who just want to drive themselves. However, all of this presumes a world where autonomous driving cars are actually safe enough, and as a pretty informed software engineer, I think we're further from that then some (especially Elon Musk and the press) would have you believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 The main economic driver for autonomous cars is the amount of money spent to pay drivers. In trucking, in Taxi, in Limo / Uber. Uber reportedly pays somewhere near 75% of the fare to the driver. This includes car ownership and maintenance, but at least 50% of the fare cost is purely driver cost. If software could replace all those drivers, an Uber (and Taxi, and Limo) rides would cost half as much. At that kind of cost, it would be more economical for most people in metro areas not to own cars at all. I don't think fares would cost half as much. They may go down, but nowhere near 50%. However, all of this presumes a world where autonomous driving cars are actually safe enough, and as a pretty informed software engineer, I think we're further from that then some (especially Elon Musk and the press) would have you believe. It's great to have another software engineer on the forum who feels the same way. Welcome to the club! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 The main economic driver for autonomous cars is the amount of money spent to pay drivers. In trucking, in Taxi, in Limo / Uber. Uber reportedly pays somewhere near 75% of the fare to the driver. This includes car ownership and maintenance, but at least 50% of the fare cost is purely driver cost. If software could replace all those drivers, an Uber (and Taxi, and Limo) rides would cost half as much. At that kind of cost, it would be more economical for most people in metro areas not to own cars at all. Of course there will be auto owners who want their own self-driving cars, and others who just want to drive themselves. However, all of this presumes a world where autonomous driving cars are actually safe enough, and as a pretty informed software engineer, I think we're further from that then some (especially Elon Musk and the press) would have you believe. Would they lower fares? Or just keep all the money to themselves instead of paying a driver? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Would they lower fares? Or just keep all the money to themselves instead of paying a driver? Ding, ding, ding!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Ding, ding, ding!!! The only way they would lower fares is if a competitor was also using autonomous vehicles and decided to lower their prices. But if uber was only competing with driver services they'd just barely undercut those prices and pocket the rest. Not that there is anything wrong with that - it's a standard business model. But it does explain the motivation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Would they lower fares? Or just keep all the money to themselves instead of paying a driver? Could go either way. Uber, Lyft, Didi and other transportation network service companies need autonomous cars in order to survive. Paying human drivers as they do now incurs huge losses for these companies. They can't raise fares for customers too much, or they will lose lots of business. Also numerous lawsuits have been filed over Uber and Lyft drivers' criminal behavior and dangerous driving. Autonomous cars can address the safety issues too. The sooner AVs are deployed, the more likely the transportation network service business will remain viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 However, all of this presumes a world where autonomous driving cars are actually safe enough, and as a pretty informed software engineer, I think we're further from that then some (especially Elon Musk and the press) would have you believe. "Starting small" with autonomous vehicle testing but doing it as soon as possible could be the way to go. Drive.ai CEO S. Tandon said "We know there are hard problems. We know we will solve them over time. We know we want to do something today.” Excellent Car and Driver article about Drive.ai's Autonomous Shuttle service that will kick off this July in Frisco, Texas in the DFW Metroplex. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/in-texas-driveais-self-driving-vehicles-will-take-office-workers-to-lunch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmic10 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 I think you are right about that. I express my angst about autonomous cars and then I'll probably live be 95 years old and wish I had one because I'm an inept driver. However for now, I want to be an autonomous human. Certainly agree with you on that. There are always two sides to the coin - want to do my own driving now, but the closer I get to the 80s the more it would be nice to have the option. Don't think the "auto" car could be any worse than a teenager on Sat. night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 (edited) "Starting small" with autonomous vehicle testing but doing it as soon as possible could be the way to go. Drive.ai CEO S. Tandon said "We know there are hard problems. We know we will solve them over time. We know we want to do something today.” Excellent Car and Driver article about Drive.ai's Autonomous Shuttle service that will kick off this July in Frisco, Texas in the DFW Metroplex. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/in-texas-driveais-self-driving-vehicles-will-take-office-workers-to-lunch The problem is that regulators have agreed to beta testing on public roads without fully understanding the tech and its limitations. Any other vehicle type with such a glaring lack of inherent safety to the public (competent operator) wold be immediately removed from public use but somehow, there is a huge perception gap with AVs. We want them so badly that we're prepared to give away all the necessary checks and validation tests.... All the talk in the world about triple redundancy is useless if the basic system can't detect obstacles and pedestrians it's supposed to avoid. Even some simple tests to prove that the system responds adequately to avoidable objects that move into the vehicle's path. And the reason Google and Uber want to field test without tests in place is because they know that their systems are not perfect and most likely fail the expectations of a most basic test, avoiding pedestrians. Edited May 12, 2018 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OX1 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 I consider some things to be inevitable ... like: - lawmakers sticking completely ignorant noses where they doN'T belong - tech-types [fore-]seeing only what they want/like - the rich not giving a sheise about the needs of the non-rich & - how many have to die to give up on it? It's sad the crappy memorial they have at that site. Just a tiny pole with a little blimp on it. Can barely see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Uber has pulled out of Arizona costing 300 jobs. https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/feds-uber-self-driving-suv-132704038.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoss96racing Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 I don't think fares would cost half as much. They may go down, but nowhere near 50%. It's great to have another software engineer on the forum who feels the same way. Welcome to the club! I am a mechanical engineer and have worked for a supplier that is developing their own autonomous program. I don't see any point with current technology that true self driving cars will work... there will need to be major infrastructure put in place to guide the cars and let them know where they are and where they should be. there are too many variables and computers aren't smart enough yet. It will come someday but there needs to be set rules on how it will work and how the system be built. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) I am a mechanical engineer and have worked for a supplier that is developing their own autonomous program. I don't see any point with current technology that true self driving cars will work... there will need to be major infrastructure put in place to guide the cars and let them know where they are and where they should be. there are too many variables and computers aren't smart enough yet. It will come someday but there needs to be set rules on how it will work and how the system be built. maaaaaybe&other-than for very-limited-access Highways, it's gonna HAVE to be something like a virtual-slotcars track or railroad Edited May 25, 2018 by 2b2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Handler Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 (edited) Finally is this a plan so people have to lease cars or use only Uber (lord hope not) and never own cars again. Falling into the master plan I heard someone say in 2002, we'd never own a book, music, movie again, it will all be a monthly service. It's a neo-feudal, company town kind of model. Edited May 26, 2018 by The Handler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 27, 2018 Author Share Posted May 27, 2018 maaaaaybe&other-than for very-limited-access Highways, it's gonna HAVE to be something like a virtual-slotcars track or railroad Start with freeways and have vehicles move together would be the best iniator beyond intelligent cruise and and lane center but vehicles still need to interact with each other and communicate electronically...still a long way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Haven't been following thread that closely but again, how about this scenario...driver less car detects vehicle crossing center line and about to hit head on. Two people standing on right curb line. Does autonomous vehicle pick the right option? Most drivers would I do believe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 (edited) Be like the Arizona Uber and do nothing..... Edited May 29, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Be like the Arizona Uber and do nothing..... Uber announced last week they are shutting down the self driving program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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