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Harley Lover

Ford mulls EV battery cell output, CEO says

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13 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Ford's relationship with the UAW has been the best of the big 3 going back decades. I don't think either side is worried about that right now. 

 

Which is amazing considering how their relationship started. For that, I am glad.

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I guess with all this talk about battery construction, no one has considered where Ford gets it's electric motors from, or do they build them somewhere?

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1 hour ago, twintornados said:

I guess with all this talk about battery construction, no one has considered where Ford gets it's electric motors from, or do they build them somewhere?

 

Plans are underway:

The company said Tuesday it plans to invest $150 million in its Van Dyke Transmission plant in Sterling Heights to build e-motors and e-transaxles beginning in 2021, which will retain 225 jobs there.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2020/11/10/ford-invest-100-million-build-e-transit-missouri-plant/6231618002/

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14 hours ago, snooter said:

They cannot control supply....the supply is in the ground....cobalt

 

Don't be obtuse - you know that Ford is (or will be) supply constrained on batteries - getting the raw materials is a different kettle of fish (but no less important, to your point).

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Not that I believe everything a competitor says, but Mark Reuss makes a point that underscores what Farley is saying:

Quote

Meanwhile, in a separate interview, Mark Reuss, president of General Motors Co., said the automaker's strategy of making EV components in-house gives them a "serious speed and cost advantage on mass production."

"The decision to do that keeps the manufacturing know-how of cells and packs in-house, and also provides speed that is incredibly important," he said.

 

Farley's comments sound like he recognizes what Reuss is describing here, and he understands that Ford has to gain this competency to effectively compete in future years.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2020/11/13/ford-discussing-making-its-own-battery-cells-ceo-says/6280801002/

Edited by Harley Lover

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Not to get political, but I'm betting Biden winning played some sort of factor in this decision.  IF the government starts pushing hard towards removing ICE engines, then batteries will play a huge part in the switch to electric.  Aren't batteries the single most costly item in an electric car?  It would be to Ford's advantage to build them in their own factories.

 

Now that's not saying they can't team up with VW or some other company.  Share technologies and spread the cost.

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54 minutes ago, 92merc said:

Not to get political, but I'm betting Biden winning played some sort of factor in this decision.  IF the government starts pushing hard towards removing ICE engines, then batteries will play a huge part in the switch to electric.  Aren't batteries the single most costly item in an electric car?  It would be to Ford's advantage to build them in their own factories.

 

Now that's not saying they can't team up with VW or some other company.  Share technologies and spread the cost.

 

I'll believe the merits of Ford's agreement with VW when there's an announcement of something tangible regarding a specific vehicle application, etc. 

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2 hours ago, 92merc said:

Not to get political, but I'm betting Biden winning played some sort of factor in this decision.  IF the government starts pushing hard towards removing ICE engines, then batteries will play a huge part in the switch to electric.  Aren't batteries the single most costly item in an electric car?  It would be to Ford's advantage to build them in their own factories.

 

Now that's not saying they can't team up with VW or some other company.  Share technologies and spread the cost.

Batteries are not only the most expensive item in a BEV, but in many ways are more akin to the engine (as opposed to the gas tank) in an ICE vehicle than the electric motor. Electric motors are pretty simple to produce and relatively inexpensive. The great expense and technological advancement is coming (and more is still needed) in the battery packs.

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Wouldn't Ford be partnering with one of the big battery companies as they produce them in house? After all these big battery companies have the know how to keep up and innovate new batteries that are lighter and more powerful each MY or refresh year. Tesla keeps coming out with more powerful batteries quite often.

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5 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

Wouldn't Ford be partnering with one of the big battery companies as they produce them in house? After all these big battery companies have the know how to keep up and innovate new batteries that are lighter and more powerful each MY or refresh year. Tesla keeps coming out with more powerful batteries quite often.


Even Tesla buys cells from Panasonic, Lg Chem and Catl.  They assemble the packs in house which is what I assume Ford will do.

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2 minutes ago, akirby said:


Even Tesla buys cells from Panasonic, Lg Chem and Catl.  They assemble the packs in house which is what I assume Ford will do.

Thanks. Makes sense. Hopefully they will make batteries for their hybrids too so they can produce them in greater numbers. Ford has to get out of battery constrained mode soon. Even Toyota is having hard time keeping with demand for its RAV 4 hybrid and more so with Prime model.

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One thing is for sure, Ford doesn't reverse a decision like this without already feeling some financial hurt

from missing out on hybrid/ PHEV sales. They're probably already banging up hard against supply limits

that underestimated actual demand. Not the first time this has happened by the way, lesson not learned.

 

Edited by jpd80

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2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

One thing is for sure, Ford doesn't reverse a decision like this without already feeling some financial hurt

from missing out on hybrid/ PHEV sales. They're probably already banging up hard against supply limits

that underestimated actual demand. Not the first time this has happened by the way, lesson not learned.

 

 

And because they can better control quality.  The reason the Kuga PHEV and several BMW PHEV's were recalled is because the supplier both companies use delivered defective batteries.  

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2 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

 

And because they can better control quality.  The reason the Kuga PHEV and several BMW PHEV's were recalled is because the supplier both companies use delivered defective batteries.  

We’re going to see more of that as production of batteries ramps up and cost pressures increase.

Fortunately, US hybrid Escape doesn’t seem to be affected as much but you can bet Ford is sweating on a good outcome.

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28 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

 

And because they can better control quality.  The reason the Kuga PHEV and several BMW PHEV's were recalled is because the supplier both companies use delivered defective batteries.  

GM is recalling over 47,000 Bolts with possible battery fires. Ditto for Tesla. Battery fires seem to be an ongoing problem.

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4 hours ago, akirby said:


Even Tesla buys cells from Panasonic, Lg Chem and Catl.  They assemble the packs in house which is what I assume Ford will do.

 

Wrong, they make their own batteries, in a joint venture with Panasonic. The Gigafactory is Tesla owned and operated.

https://www.tesla.com/gigafactory

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/13/ford-is-absolutely-interested-in-producing-ev-batteries-like-tesla-and-gm.html?recirc=taboolainternal

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That’s right, Tesla made that decision to prevent any supply issues with an outside vendor.

 

I wonder if sharing GM’s new battery tech would be such a bad thing..if GM was willing of course...

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53 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

I wonder if sharing GM’s new battery tech would be such a bad thing..if GM was willing of course...

 

I'm sure if Ford paid them enough money GM would be happy to oblige.

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1 hour ago, AGR said:

 

Wrong, they make their own batteries, in a joint venture with Panasonic. The Gigafactory is Tesla owned and operated.

https://www.tesla.com/gigafactory

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/13/ford-is-absolutely-interested-in-producing-ev-batteries-like-tesla-and-gm.html?recirc=taboolainternal

 

Gigafactory 1 in Nevada makes 2170 cells designed and engineered jointly by Tesla and Panasonic. These are used in Model 3 for markets outside China. China market Model 3 made at the Shanghai Gigafactory use cells from Panasonic, LG Chem, and CATL as akirby mentioned. The CATL cells which started production a few months ago use a cobalt free lithium iron phosphate chemistry. 

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9 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

 

I'm sure if Ford paid them enough money GM would be happy to oblige.

LOL, probably the wrong time to look at JV assistance......

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3 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

GM is recalling over 47,000 Bolts with possible battery fires. Ditto for Tesla. Battery fires seem to be an ongoing problem.

You cannot just remove the cobalt and not expect a fire..i do not trust any of the garbage being built by china

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1 hour ago, snooter said:

You cannot just remove the cobalt and not expect a fire..i do not trust any of the garbage being built by china


So do you only have a landline?

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23 hours ago, akirby said:


Even Tesla buys cells from Panasonic, Lg Chem and Catl.  They assemble the packs in house which is what I assume Ford will do.

 

BYD is the only car company in the world that makes batteries 100% in house, which makes sense because it started as a battery company. They started making ICE cars themselves 15 years ago to support its nascent EV car and bus business. 

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