Ford's EV push, NBC exclusive

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Sometimes I wonder its because its just because its the only thing they've known and lots of people don't like change....if your talking about cops alone and not the Police dept that was buying them and it allowed them to reuse the gear they had in them for 20+ years ?

 

Ive said this here before but it's worth repeating. I have a friend who just retired from Border Patrol about 4 months ago. His station used every type of patrol car there is, except for the GM SUVs. He didn't have any open objections to many but he preferred the Crown Vic because it had the most balanced handling, great sight lines, best storage, easiest to load handcuffed people into the back seat, and a great powertrain that is damn near bulletproof. His biggest complaint about the charger is it's stupid fast until you need to turn, and he hated the sight lines and ingress/egress of the Taurus. They only just started getting Explorers by the time he started doing exclusively marine and desk assignments so he never had an opinion on those. 

[bzcat]

7 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

Ford will have 4 Electric Assembly plants mid-decade, Rouge, Oakville, Cuautitlan, Tennessee.  The New Battery plants will also give Ford enough supply for 1 million electric vehicles that is on top of the 500,000 vehicles the already announced plants can produce. ~1.5 million battery vehicles for the NA Market by 2027. 

 

5 plants - you forgot Kansas City which will be the first Ford plant in the US to start building EV (Transit). Production is supposed to start in November 2021 I believe.

 

These are the remaining plants without any EV plans:

Louisville - Escape/Corsair EV is moving to Oakville so once ICE winds down... 

Kentucky - Seems like a sure bet they will get Navigator and Expy EV but now I'm not so sure... there may be room at Tennessee for that

Chicago - Not clear if midsize EV going to Cuautitlan is replacing both Edge and Explorer or just Edge.

Flat Rock - Will they get the next gen Mustang EV (the one that comes after the S650)?

Ohio - Ford hasn't tip its hand yet on medium duty EV plans so it is anyone's guess.

 

 

[probeGT]

6 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Cops love them 

Unless they get rear ended. The Crown Vics, that is.

[Footballfan]

1 hour ago, bzcat said:

 

5 plants - you forgot Kansas City which will be the first Ford plant in the US to start building EV (Transit). Production is supposed to start in November 2021 I believe.

 

These are the remaining plants without any EV plans:

Louisville - Escape/Corsair EV is moving to Oakville so once ICE winds down... 

Kentucky - Seems like a sure bet they will get Navigator and Expy EV but now I'm not so sure... there may be room at Tennessee for that

Chicago - Not clear if midsize EV going to Cuautitlan is replacing both Edge and Explorer or just Edge.

Flat Rock - Will they get the next gen Mustang EV (the one that comes after the S650)?

Ohio - Ford hasn't tip its hand yet on medium duty EV plans so it is anyone's guess.

 

 

I'm sure the Escape and Explorer will continue to be ICE even past 2030.  Too many sales to ignore.

[Footballfan]

7 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Yeah that's what I've heard. The economy in Utah is booming right now, I believe it's currently experiencing the greatest amount of growth in the nation currently, or close to it. That's largely due to the very business friendly policies our government has established. 

My apologies to Junior.   It appears Shitmer and her incompetent administration did not even bid on the project:

 

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/michigan-economic-development-chief-state-didnt-actively-bid-new-ford-plants

 

Likely the bimbo was too busy shutting down Michigan businesses and campaigning for Biden to care.  Can't wait to next November. 

 

[7Mary3]

I expected Ford would announce a huge push into BEV's, a dedicated plant or two, and some agreement over in-house batteries.  Great news, but not a surprise.  But what I think is the big take-away here is that even the Super Duty is going BEV.  I expect that the BEV version will be sold along side the traditional (gas and diesel) Super Duty variants at least for a while.  Be interesting to see for how long.... 

[twintornados]

18 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

...Europe is finding that out as winter sets in shortly.

 

As if Europe has never dealt with winter before??

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, twintornados said:

 

As if Europe has never dealt with winter before??

 

The point is effects on BEVs as adoption expands.

[twintornados]

15 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

The point is effects on BEVs as adoption expands.

 

...and my counter point is, Europe (and by extension, companies that build and sell products there) has dealt with winter since time immortal.

[Bob Rosadini]

1 hour ago, twintornados said:

 

As if Europe has never dealt with winter before??

TT....I do believe Ford Buyer is referring to the changed power supply picture in Europe.  Yesterday's WSJ had an opinion piece.."Climate Policy Meets Cold Reality".  By-line..."The rush to renewables causes severe energy price spikes and shortages in Europe. Biden's policies would do the same".

In a nutshell the message is  Europe has shutdown hundreds of coal fired power plants and all the renewable sources don't provide reliable power around the clock.

 

Closing comment...."Europe offers a portent of the havoc to come under the Biden administration's policies that aim to shut down fossil fuel production and power the the US grid exclusively with renewables."

 

Hah-to say nothing of the fact in some areas we can't deliver electricity on a reliable basis today.  Never mind when we will have all of these EV's sucking  up electricity.  Of course not a problem if your home has a standby genset powered by...........?.

 

[FordBuyer]

2 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

As if Europe has never dealt with winter before??

 

Nothing like taking my point out of context...huh? Already GB is out of gas as petrol stations there are mostly running dry. 

[twintornados]

40 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

TT....I do believe Ford Buyer is referring to the changed power supply picture in Europe.  Yesterday's WSJ had an opinion piece.."Climate Policy Meets Cold Reality".  By-line..."The rush to renewables causes severe energy price spikes and shortages in Europe. Biden's policies would do the same".

In a nutshell the message is  Europe has shutdown hundreds of coal fired power plants and all the renewable sources don't provide reliable power around the clock.

 

Closing comment...."Europe offers a portent of the havoc to come under the Biden administration's policies that aim to shut down fossil fuel production and power the the US grid exclusively with renewables."

 

Hah-to say nothing of the fact in some areas we can't deliver electricity on a reliable basis today.  Never mind when we will have all of these EV's sucking  up electricity.  Of course not a problem if your home has a standby genset powered by...........?.

 

 

What will dictate the transition from ICE to BEV will be market forces, not weather, not government mandates, not the abominable snowman.. 

[Rangers09]

An electric Super Duty certainly doesn't interest us, we will continue with our 22 F-450 6.7. Towing a large 5th wheel, we have experienced numerous campgrounds where the electrical infrastructure struggles when the RV aircons are working. Just can't imagine adding additional load to charge the tow vehicles. Before RV electric tow vehicles are common, campgrounds will require significant investment, which I don't see anytime soon. My other concern would be range, as we often tow the 5th wheel 350 to 400 miles a day, and I prefer a reserve of about 100 miles.

 

Would be surprised to see an electric Super Duty have 450 - 500 mile range, when towing a 16,500 lbs 5'er through the Rockies.

[jpd80]

At the moment we’re seeing the set up of parallel manufacturing plants for BEVs.

No doubt, the intent is to be as least disruptive as possible to existing operations while building new plants dedicated to electrification and actually growing sales ahead of inevitable displacement of ICE sales, how much or how quickly that happens is anyone’s guess. The point being is that by offering so many BEVs, Ford is handing the choice and rate of change to customers to tell them what the demand level is, that is only possible once these new products are on sale.

 

Interesting times ahead……

Edited September 29, 2021 by jpd80

[Bob Rosadini]

12 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

What will dictate the transition from ICE to BEV will be market forces, not weather, not government mandates, not the abominable snowman.. 

Oh for sure I would agree with your point.  That is what SHOULD dictate the conversion rate.  IMO , the industry-and government,  are determined to force it down our throats.  As someone posted-what are you going to do when there ARE no ICE's??  TS!   But back to Ford Buyers point and your response that cold winters are nothing new.  For sure.  But cold European winters have never occurred with a large percentage of Europe's reliable power off line.  THAT IMO is the issue.  Reliable power sources are shut down with the hope that all the new "green options" will come through.

 

A lot of people in Texas will I'm sure disagree with that theory.

 

Case in point- I routinely drive by two large wind installations here in Mass.  Rarely are all of these functioning at the same time.  Or do these large windmills only function if the grid demands power????

[AGR]

Yes, the windmills don't turn when there's not enough demand for electricity. That's why the power companies want to install grid storage. But I don't it's possible to only rely on wind and solar. Baseline generation, whether from nuclear, gas, or coal, will be needed.

[fordmantpw]

8 hours ago, AGR said:

Yes, the windmills don't turn when there's not enough demand for electricity. That's why the power companies want to install grid storage. But I don't it's possible to only rely on wind and solar. Baseline generation, whether from nuclear, gas, or coal, will be needed.

 

The utility I work for has a pumped hydro storage facility.  When electricity is cheap, it pumps water up a mountain to a huge reservoir.  When electricity is in high demand, it flows down to a lower reservoir, generating electricity.  It's basically a HUGE battery just to support what you are saying.

 

We are moving to be carbon free by 2050.  I expect more small nuclear reactors to come online in the next 15 +/- years to replace the aging coal plants, along with wind and solar.

[twintornados]

9 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Reliable power sources are shut down with the hope that all the new "green options" will come through.

 

If the politicians allow "reliable power sources" to be shut down to force "green options", then they won't be politicians for long...whether in Europe of here in the USA...those green options need to be as reliable and market driven and that will be what pushes the old "reliable power sources" out of the gird. The power grid in the US is not static (except Texas maybe) and is in a constant state of being upgraded due to market demands. Today's grid looks nothing like the grid of the 1940's and 1950's, and the grid of 2040 and 2050 will look nothing like the grid of today.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, fordmantpw said:

 

The utility I work for has a pumped hydro storage facility.  When electricity is cheap, it pumps water up a mountain to a huge reservoir.  When electricity is in high demand, it flows down to a lower reservoir, generating electricity.  It's basically a HUGE battery just to support what you are saying.

I thought that was so cool and incredibly clever when I first heard about it.

 

Someone else was doing the same thing but with a tower and weights I think.  

[Bob Rosadini]

42 minutes ago, akirby said:

I thought that was so cool and incredibly clever when I first heard about it.

 

Someone else was doing the same thing but with a tower and weights I think.  

To follow  up on Fordman's post,  In the late 60's NYS began construction on the Blenheim-Gilboa  pumped  storage facility in the Catskill region of NY.  This is a large facility and has been functioning for a long time.  All you need is  a reasonably close mountain to provide the elevation for the holding basin.  And for sure this concept would make a lot of sense in conjunction with a large wind project.  Can't count on demand to  be there in high wind periods but then that is the perfect time for pumping water.

 

Next best thing to  harnessing tidal flow?

[Bob Rosadini]

2 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

If the politicians allow "reliable power sources" to be shut down to force "green options", then they won't be politicians for long...whether in Europe of here in the USA...those green options need to be as reliable and market driven and that will be what pushes the old "reliable power sources" out of the gird. The power grid in the US is not static (except Texas maybe) and is in a constant state of being upgraded due to market demands. Today's grid looks nothing like the grid of the 1940's and 1950's, and the grid of 2040 and 2050 will look nothing like the grid of today.

Tell that to AOC and the "gang of four"

[fordmantpw]

51 minutes ago, akirby said:

I thought that was so cool and incredibly clever when I first heard about it.

 

Someone else was doing the same thing but with a tower and weights I think.  

 

Some interesting reading, including some info about the failure of the upper reservoir in 2005: 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taum_Sauk_Hydroelectric_Power_Station

https://www.ameren.com/missouri/company/environment-and-sustainability/hydroelectric/taum-sauk

 

[Bob Rosadini]

10 hours ago, AGR said:

Yes, the windmills don't turn when there's not enough demand for electricity. That's why the power companies want to install grid storage. But I don't it's possible to only rely on wind and solar. Baseline generation, whether from nuclear, gas, or coal, will be needed.

Thanks for education  Thought that might be case but no clue.

[akirby]

34 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

 

Some interesting reading, including some info about the failure of the upper reservoir in 2005: 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taum_Sauk_Hydroelectric_Power_Station

https://www.ameren.com/missouri/company/environment-and-sustainability/hydroelectric/taum-sauk

 

I saw that on engineering catastrophes.

[twintornados]

32 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Tell that to AOC and the "gang of four"

 

She is a blithering extremist in the Democrat Party in the same vein as Marjorie Taylor-Green and Matt Gaetz from the extremes of the GOP. Lets hope that both extreme ends of the political spectrum get shown the door in the mid-terms.