GearheadGrrrl Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Shrinking garage size is a trend the domestic pickup makers are missing- In new construction townhouses have been trending over single family for years, and condo garages are smaller- Thus the market for full size pickups and related BOF SUVs is shrinking while higher prices are pusher buyers to longer loans and ownership cycles. For the domestic pickup makers that have been comfortably lounging in their "chicken tax" created fortress, the market is shrinking while they have factories and UAW workers to keep busy. It gets worse- Drive through any older suburb at 3am and the driveways in front of the two car attached garages are full and parts of the streets too as multi generation families have turned those double garages into bedrooms. If on street parking is banned driveway space is at a premium and buying an Edge instead of Explorer can mean one more car can fit in the driveway, and at "shift change" less family members will have to sit in a car on the street waiting for a driveway parking space. The world and even America is changing. The Japanese and Korean makers get it, Ford not so much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 17 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said: Shrinking garage size is a trend the domestic pickup makers are missing- In new construction townhouses have been trending over single family for years, and condo garages are smaller- Thus the market for full size pickups and related BOF SUVs is shrinking while higher prices are pusher buyers to longer loans and ownership cycles. For the domestic pickup makers that have been comfortably lounging in their "chicken tax" created fortress, the market is shrinking while they have factories and UAW workers to keep busy. It gets worse- Drive through any older suburb at 3am and the driveways in front of the two car attached garages are full and parts of the streets too as multi generation families have turned those double garages into bedrooms. If on street parking is banned driveway space is at a premium and buying an Edge instead of Explorer can mean one more car can fit in the driveway, and at "shift change" less family members will have to sit in a car on the street waiting for a driveway parking space. The world and even America is changing. The Japanese and Korean makers get it, Ford not so much... Nice way to completely Conflate facts and options. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 4 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: No lol, if nothing else I don’t know if it’s actually happening or not. Could you at least tell us if it is a high or low volume product ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 7 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Baja Mustang? Something like this? https://configurator.porsche.com/en-US/model/992460 I really don't see the point of a vehicle like this - from Porsche or Ford. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 59 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I really don't see the point of a vehicle like this - from Porsche or Ford. Inspired by Rally racing which is huge in Europe and other parts of the world. And apparently it has the off road performance to go with the looks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzach Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 4 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said: Shrinking garage size is a trend the domestic pickup makers are missing- In new construction townhouses have been trending over single family for years, and condo garages are smaller- Thus the market for full size pickups and related BOF SUVs is shrinking while higher prices are pusher buyers to longer loans and ownership cycles. For the domestic pickup makers that have been comfortably lounging in their "chicken tax" created fortress, the market is shrinking while they have factories and UAW workers to keep busy. It gets worse- Drive through any older suburb at 3am and the driveways in front of the two car attached garages are full and parts of the streets too as multi generation families have turned those double garages into bedrooms. If on street parking is banned driveway space is at a premium and buying an Edge instead of Explorer can mean one more car can fit in the driveway, and at "shift change" less family members will have to sit in a car on the street waiting for a driveway parking space. The world and even America is changing. The Japanese and Korean makers get it, Ford not so much... LOL, please tell me what extra car will fit in the 9.5 inches gained by the Edge over the Explorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 32 minutes ago, tzach said: LOL, please tell me what extra car will fit in the 9.5 inches gained by the Edge over the Explorer. Funny you ask. 2 Edges fit much better than 2 Explorers, on my 33' (396") long driveway, without overhanging the sidewalk, hitting the door, or each other. HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 52 minutes ago, tzach said: LOL, please tell me what extra car will fit in the 9.5 inches gained by the Edge over the Explorer. 9.5 is pretty big depending on context 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, akirby said: Inspired by Rally racing which is huge in Europe and other parts of the world. And apparently it has the off road performance to go with the looks. I'm just not sure if I see it selling here.....and certainly not in any numbers that would light the world on fire. I wonder if he's hinting at *stirs pot* a Mustang sedan........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 4 hours ago, rmc523 said: I wonder if he's hinting at *stirs pot* a Mustang sedan........ No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 18 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: No If the rumor I heard about that mystery product is true it’s going to make a few people around here happy. If whatever it is is mustang based, likely as it's planned for flat rock, the mustangs 60th anniversary would be an excellent time to reveal it. I used to want a mid-engine mustang, but I realize those dreams are kinda dead now with the GTD. I'm guessing mustang hybrid or that lifted raptor thing. Who knows, if Ford wants to get really crazy, they could combine the mustang hybrid and raptor into one product, a slightly lifted AWD mustang for colder climates with electric motors powering the front wheels, enhancing performance and all weather capability in one go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Ford Edge is a huge seller here in New England. Another dumb move by Ford, just like the Fusion and Taurus. Stop building EV's! They're all done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 7 hours ago, DeluxeStang said: If whatever it is is mustang based, likely as it's planned for flat rock, the mustangs 60th anniversary would be an excellent time to reveal it. I used to want a mid-engine mustang, but I realize those dreams are kinda dead now with the GTD. I'm guessing mustang hybrid or that lifted raptor thing. Who knows, if Ford wants to get really crazy, they could combine the mustang hybrid and raptor into one product, a slightly lifted AWD mustang for colder climates with electric motors powering the front wheels, enhancing performance and all weather capability in one go. While a sedan would be nice, I don't see it happening-the Raptor Mustang or hybrid Mustang would be the most likely thing to happen. 18 minutes ago, Joe771476 said: Stop building EV's! They're all done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: While a sedan would be nice, I don't see it happening-the Raptor Mustang or hybrid Mustang would be the most likely thing to happen. The implication from the contract was that it was an all-new product. An AWD or hybrid Mustang would be considered, I feel, an AWD extension of the Mustang line. Considering the plant is being run at about one-third capacity, I was guessing it would be a Ford product brought here from another part of the world. Some ideas: Evos Taurus sedan Edge Nautilus I think the question is how much is Ford willing to spend at Flat Rock. Over the past several years the had two multi-billion dollar investments- and a new paint shop- cancelled by Hackett the Hatchet Edited February 6 by Footballfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 15 minutes ago, Footballfan said: The implication from the contract was that it was an all-new product. An AWD or hybrid Mustang would be considered, I feel, an AWD extension of the Mustang line. Considering the plant is being run at about one-third capacity, I was guessing it would be a Ford product brought here from another part of the world. Some ideas: Evos Taurus sedan Edge Nautilus I think the question is how much is Ford willing to spend at Flat Rock. Over the past several years the had two multi-billion dollar investments- and a new paint shop- cancelled by Hackett the Hatchet I don't believe something as tall as an edge or Nautilus could be build at Flat Rock. But as you mentioned, if it was something s650 based, it is odd how they're referring to it as this new product, rather than calling it a derivative of the s650 like they have when referring to additional mustang models in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 24 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said: I don't believe something as tall as an edge or Nautilus could be build at Flat Rock. But as you mentioned, if it was something s650 based, it is odd how they're referring to it as this new product, rather than calling it a derivative of the s650 like they have when referring to additional mustang models in the past. That's true for some of the vehicles. The Taurus and perhaps the Evos would fit, but anything else would require a new or heavily modified paint shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 What about the Puma? It would fit since it small but who knows if it would be profitable. Or something like the Evos that could be the mythical Suburu fighter-a small lift with some cladding on it would fit in the plant and the paint shop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 15 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: No. Not sure what it would be then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) While this might also be suited for the competing vehicles forum, it is relevant to this discussion on the end of Edge production and the conversation of the factory over to building the new Ford and Lincoln 3-row EVs. Seems Toyota is also looking to compete in this space with a new EV plant in Kentucky to churn out 3-row EVs, to be released at the same time as the new Ford/Lincoln products. https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/06/toyota-to-invest-1point3-billion-for-large-all-electric-suv-in-kentucky.html Edited February 6 by Gurgeh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dequindre Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 22 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: No. Lincoln product? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 16 hours ago, Gurgeh said: While this might also be suited for the competing vehicles forum, it is relevant to this discussion on the end of Edge production and the conversation of the factory over to building the new Ford and Lincoln 3-row EVs. Seems Toyota is also looking to compete in this space with a new EV plant in Kentucky to churn out 3-row EVs, to be released at the same time as the new Ford/Lincoln products. https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/06/toyota-to-invest-1point3-billion-for-large-all-electric-suv-in-kentucky.html I know this completely OT, but Toyotas CEO is talking out both sides of his mouth with EVs plus having an engine plant raided by authorizes because they don't meet regulations...WTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 On 2/6/2024 at 11:42 AM, rmc523 said: Not sure what it would be then. Based on what we know about FRAP and from Fuzzy's clues, the only vehicle it could be is the new Mondeo(China)/Taurus(Middle East). Don't caught up in the $50M figure in the new CBA. The way that was worded was opened ended; the $50M is what they'll spend if only the Mustang is built there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 16 minutes ago, AGR said: Based on what we know about FRAP and from Fuzzy's clues, the only vehicle it could be is the new Mondeo(China)/Taurus(Middle East). Using this as deduction, with FRAP having height issues- 2024 Mustang 55in tall 2024 Monedo 59in tall 2024 Taurus 59.2 2024 Evos 63 in tall 2024 Edge 68 in tall So the Edge is too tall, but is the Evos short enough to clear? Maybe some creative height solutions to make it fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 25 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Using this as deduction, with FRAP having height issues- 2024 Mustang 55in tall 2024 Monedo 59in tall 2024 Taurus 59.2 2024 Evos 63 in tall 2024 Edge 68 in tall So the Edge is too tall, but is the Evos short enough to clear? Maybe some creative height solutions to make it fit? I don't know, I'm not an expert on FRAP. But here's a few more vehicles previously made there: 2013-20 Fusion: 58.1" tall 2017 -20 Continental: 58.5" tall I do know that Mike Levine stated emphatically that the Evos would not be sold here, but we all know about Ford and plans... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 15 minutes ago, AGR said: I do know that Mike Levine stated emphatically that the Evos would not be sold here, but we all know about Ford and plans... Right but I don't think adding a sedan back the lineup would be exactly bright either. The Evos is different enough that its not quite a sedan not quite a station wagon or crossover too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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