Joe771476 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 First, as I stated in another thread, with gasoline passing $3, Ford better rethink dropping the sedans. But another reason is that if customers who are INITIALLY thinking about a sedan don't go to a Ford dealership because they know Ford doesn't sell cars anymore, then the salespeople won't even have the chance to up-sell to an SUV! I'm sure a lot of Escape sales came from the customer looking at sedans first! You need to maintain the customer traffic! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) First, as I stated in another thread, with gasoline passing $3, Ford better rethink dropping the sedans. But another reason is that if customers who are INITIALLY thinking about a sedan don't go to a Ford dealership because they know Ford doesn't sell cars anymore, then the salespeople won't even have the chance to up-sell to an SUV! I'm sure a lot of Escape sales came from the customer looking at sedans first! You need to maintain the customer traffic! . I disagree...when I was shopping for my SUV, I didn't consider a sedan at all....an SUV is not an "up-sell". It is it's own category and not an adjunct to sedan sales... Edited April 30, 2018 by twintornados 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted April 30, 2018 Author Share Posted April 30, 2018 Yes but you were looking initially for an SUV. I'm talking about the people who want to look first for a sedan. You don't think an SUV is an up-sell? I do. More room, better traction, maybe even safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 But ther's the rub.......they cost more. I'm not going to buy an SUV if I'm looking for a car. I have a budget and an SUV is way over my budget. I'm shopping elsewhere to buy my next car. Ford don't want me for a customer anymore? See ya 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Its more like they want a $40k exploder but leave in an escape...the baseline has yet to be established on the "new ford"....this time next year we should know a lot more on the "hackett plan" and how it is shaking out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) since everything is going hybrid and electric, mileage becomes a moot point..... Edited April 30, 2018 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 since everything is going hybrid and electric mileage becomes a moot point..... But even still, less weight is more energy efficient. A hybrid car with less weight will still get better mileage than a hybrid SUV or CUV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Increasing gas prices will have next to no effect on CUV sales, Apples to Apples comparison with a FWD Escape vs FWD Fusion with the 1.5 Ecoboost 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Yes but you were looking initially for an SUV. I'm talking about the people who want to look first for a sedan. You don't think an SUV is an up-sell? I do. More room, better traction, maybe even safer. It can be an upsell but more and more people are going in looking for a SUV especially when they get the new smaller SUVs. Either way they’re willing to trade some of those sales for more higher margin sales. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 like it or not the market has gravitated to sedans with tall greenhouses....which is basically what CUVs are....and like I said...Fusion is here till 2020, if the market starts leaning sedans again expect a reaction.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Market won't lean back, Ford has more economy products arriving anyway if it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Yes but you were looking initially for an SUV. I'm talking about the people who want to look first for a sedan. You don't think an SUV is an up-sell? I do. More room, better traction, maybe even safer. . Using that metric should work when looking at a Focus then considering an AWD Fusion...more room, better traction and safer ....yet, the AWD Fusion languishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) notice the pricing-overlaps, too [not perfect apples/oranges but still] Increasing gas prices will have next to no effect on CUV sales, Apples to Apples comparison with a FWD Escape vs FWD Fusion with the 1.5 Ecoboost Edited May 1, 2018 by 2b2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Look, maybe more people should be like you but people want CUV/SUV's. If they can't afford one from Ford, they will go to Nissan, Kia, or Hyndai (they will find a way to get a payment that people can afford). If you want the cheapest car with a warranty go buy a Spark or a Versa. I would guarantee that both cars make little to no money and where they make their money is the financing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) Increasing gas prices will have next to no effect on CUV sales, Apples to Apples comparison with a FWD Escape vs FWD Fusion with the 1.5 Ecoboost The Escape and Fusion are great examples of how the utility form factor creates equal value despite substantial platform cost and engineering differences. The only reason I would chose the Fusion over the Escape is because the Fusion is a better engineered and refined product for the money...but you know the cost to Ford is not equal. Utility is a huge value add and it costs nothing to do. Fusion started life as a pretty simple cheaply made product that evolved over time to be sophisticated and refined, the same is happening to compact crossovers and I'm sure the next Escape will make huge progress as competition forces improved value and refinement. Edited May 1, 2018 by Assimilator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBirdStangSkyliner Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 The issue with the thesis of this thread is that cars and SUV's aren't cross-shopped. Cars and CUV's are, though, and the lines have become so blurred that he only definitive distinction is the third box in the shape of the typical sedan. Redesign the Fusion with a couple of inches extra drive height, make it a wagon without exactly looking lke one, shrink the ridiculously enormous "A" pillar, barf up some cladding on it, and voila - it will sale again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) I'm not entirely sure the key is to make sedans slightly more Crossover-like. We might see something more exciting with electrification which opens up vehicle architecture in new ways as we see with Tesla, so time will tell to see how Ford goes about this but an exotic form factor might be appealing for that type of vehicle. For now I think the market is still very much drawn to something that clearly identifies as an SUV, at least in the mainstream volume market. We may have to get to a point where the car is largely extinct and new designs start bringing the sihlouette closer to the ground again, but I don't think it's going to transition from the sedan. I'm not really expecting Ford to blur the lines by 2020 since I don't think that's what's really wanted, but I'm sure they have an idea of what customers they want to target and how. Edited May 1, 2018 by Assimilator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBirdStangSkyliner Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I agree and disagree. CUV's that don't look like real SUV's seem to be picking up plenty of steam in sales. I like sedans and recently saved 34% off MSRP on a fully loaded one that was almost two model years old and still unsold. Three box mid-sizers just aren't selling in high trims. Good for those of us swimming against the stream, not good for car makers, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Redesign the Fusion with a couple of inches extra drive height, make it a wagon without exactly looking lke one, shrink the ridiculously enormous "A" pillar, barf up some cladding on it, and voila - it will sale again. You do realize that is exactly what is happening with the Focus, right? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Yes but you were looking initially for an SUV. I'm talking about the people who want to look first for a sedan. You don't think an SUV is an up-sell? I do. More room, better traction, maybe even safer. I agree with this. A lot of customers aren't always aware of the other choices or find when they actually try what they came for, they find something they don't like about it. That gives the salesman a chance for the up sell. When I go, I pretty much know exactly what I want and how I'll order it, but I'm far from an average customer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I agree with this. A lot of customers aren't always aware of the other choices or find when they actually try what they came for, they find something they don't like about it. That gives the salesman a chance for the up sell. When I go, I pretty much know exactly what I want and how I'll order it, but I'm far from an average customer. Any good salesman should try to upsell you, thats their job. I should know, I used to work in sales before I came to Ford. Its up to the customer to not fall for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) How to sell a car from the movie SUCKERS -LINK Edited May 1, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Increasing gas prices will have next to no effect on CUV sales, Apples to Apples comparison with a FWD Escape vs FWD Fusion with the 1.5 Ecoboost The Escape is based on the Focus platform. The Focus gets better fuel economy. The point I was trying to make is that when a car and suv are based off the same platform, the car gats better mileage due to lower weight. The Edge and Fusion with the same engine would be a better comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) You cant just make the fusion a wagon and raise it an inch and expect it to sell. Nobody wants wagons. The only car maker that is successful with wagons is Subaru, and they sold a whopping 58k vehicles as an entire brand (not just wagons) last month. Ford would have to redesign it to look like an suv to make people like it, which then leads to cuvs, which we already have. I like the Volvo S60 cross country. I think its added ride height on a sedan looks pretty cool, but Ive never seen one on the road. Maybe its because its a lot more expensive vs a regular s60, or maybe most people dont like that look. That car actually has 4 wheel drive built in too, I doubt ford will be making focus active with that. As mentioned previously, bmw and MB have their SUVs that are designed to look like coupes, I dont think their sales are setting the world on fire. Again, these vehicles are pretty expensive so that could be holding them back, but I believe its more likely that people dont want that kind of vehicle. The focus active will be successful because it looks almost the exact same as the regular focus, which should be a decent car. Also its a hatchback which is already the most popular model of focus. If you made it a focus wagon instead of a hatch, itd be sitting on lots forever Edited May 1, 2018 by T-dubz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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