Jump to content
  • Custom Search


bzcat

Ford China launches 2020 Mondeo with new interior

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, probowler said:

It annoys me that Ford decided to build a train station instead of buying a new lot or empty factory... or perhaps finishing that factory in Mexico and saving it for future production capacity needs. Surely you can build a factory shell or something and keep it locked up and ready to tool-up for a bearable cost... certainly cheaper than rebuilding Detroit.  Just having a space available and ready would give ford so much flexibility to react to the market to build new product or produce more existing vehicles that prove super popular.

Yes it would raise fixed costs.. but businesses need to grow, you can't just stagnate. I realize Ford is going through a lot of changes right now, but they shouldn't give up on trying to increase market share.  You can raise profit margins, but that's only half the picture


Not to mention that more employers are getting used to their employees working from home. Office space kinda seems like a waste of money now, however I think I remember that ford got some grants or something to fix up the train station.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, T-dubz said:


Not to mention that more employers are getting used to their employees working from home. Office space kinda seems like a waste of money now, however I think I remember that ford got some grants or something to fix up the train station.


They got a gigantic tax break from the city of Detroit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, probowler said:

It annoys me that Ford decided to build a train station instead of buying a new lot or empty factory... or perhaps finishing that factory in Mexico and saving it for future production capacity needs. Surely you can build a factory shell or something and keep it locked up and ready to tool-up for a bearable cost... certainly cheaper than rebuilding Detroit.  Just having a space available and ready would give ford so much flexibility to react to the market to build new product or produce more existing vehicles that prove super popular.

Yes it would raise fixed costs.. but businesses need to grow, you can't just stagnate. I realize Ford is going through a lot of changes right now, but they shouldn't give up on trying to increase market share.  You can raise profit margins, but that's only half the picture

 

Increase market share? Ford gave up on that years ago and has been losing market share and customers for years. It's all about meeting their profit objective regardless of the long term consequences of losing customers to the competition. And the worst part is that the Company doesn't care.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

To me, under Mulally, Ford pushed above its weight class on interiors, and charged higher than they were before, but it was worth it.  Fields then just let everything coast.  Now we have Hackett in charge, and it seems like they still want to charge that higher pricepoint, but want to give average interiors.  Overall, the interiors aren't horrible, but there are some definite cost cutting areas (gauges on lower end Escapes, for example).  It feels like there are some areas where they could definitely improve, but they're not as horrid as reviews make them out to be.

 

That is true. Under Mulally, Ford did try harder. His big thing was about spending money on where customer can see and feel. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple years ago, Ford dealers told Ford the Fusion was an important vehicle for them. Dealers are those who work in the trenches and have to sell the product. Just as school administrators don't much value the imput of teachers, auto companies don't really care much about what dealers have to say.

 

AfFORDability is or was the calling card of Ford. Upscale is Lincoln territory. Dealers understand it, but Ford under Hackett doesn't seem to. I could see Ford getting rid of Fiesta, Focus, and Fusion if they had affordable replacements ready, but they don't. Maverick, new Ecosport are years away. I believe the new Bronco Sport is a brilliant move, but will have to wait and see what pricing looks like on the lower trim levels.

 

Add in an all new economy that doesn't look good, where value will be a premium, and Ford looks caught flatfooted once again. Hopefully trucks and vans will save their ass, but not much else. I would think that lower trim levels of Escape, Explorer, Bronco Sport will do OK, but not Limited, Titanium, and Platinum in this economy. I guess Ford could offer blow out prices on the premium trim levels, but there goes the profit margin. 

 

I just read a review of the new Nissan Sentra. Starts under $20,000, and the one being reviewed was well optioned out at $24,000. Reviewer loved it. Ford doesn't want to play in this segment anymore, but I don't think most Ford buyers are willing to spend $40,000+ for a Ford. Especially in this economy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

A couple years ago, Ford dealers told Ford the Fusion was an important vehicle for them. Dealers are those who work in the trenches and have to sell the product. Just as school administrators don't much value the imput of teachers, auto companies don't really care much about what dealers have to say.

 

AfFORDability is or was the calling card of Ford. Upscale is Lincoln territory. Dealers understand it, but Ford under Hackett doesn't seem to. I could see Ford getting rid of Fiesta, Focus, and Fusion if they had affordable replacements ready, but they don't. Maverick, new Ecosport are years away. I believe the new Bronco Sport is a brilliant move, but will have to wait and see what pricing looks like on the lower trim levels.

 

Add in an all new economy that doesn't look good, where value will be a premium, and Ford looks caught flatfooted once again. Hopefully trucks and vans will save their ass, but not much else. I would think that lower trim levels of Escape, Explorer, Bronco Sport will do OK, but not Limited, Titanium, and Platinum in this economy. I guess Ford could offer blow out prices on the premium trim levels, but there goes the profit margin. 

 

I just read a review of the new Nissan Sentra. Starts under $20,000, and the one being reviewed was well optioned out at $24,000. Reviewer loved it. Ford doesn't want to play in this segment anymore, but I don't think most Ford buyers are willing to spend $40,000+ for a Ford. Especially in this economy. 

 

2 points.  What is good for the dealer isn't necessarily good for the mfr.  I'm sure dealers could sell tons of cheap Ford vehicles, but if Ford can't turn a decent profit doing that what's the point?   The dealer makes the same profit on a sale whether there is a $500 rebate of $5K rebate but it makes a huge difference to Ford's bottom line.

 

2nd - in a recession like this people don't switch to cheaper vehicles, they just stop buying as many new vehicles.  Around 2008 total sales dropped from 17M to 11M almost overnight.   But the 11M that were sold were the same as pre-recession for the most part.    People who lose their jobs don't buy a new vehicle at all.  So I don't think there is any correlation to cheaper vehicles, just fewer overall sales.  People who still have jobs will be largely unaffected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why is the Japanese  car manufactures can make and sell small and return a profit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, smsfordman said:

Why is the Japanese  car manufactures can make and sell small and return a profit.


Bigger worldwide market.  Ford isnt allowed to sell cars in Japan like the Japanese sell theirs here.
 

They’re willing to accept a smaller profit margin.

 

Currency exchange.

 

Japanese government assistance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, akirby said:

leaving Fusion with an expensive platform competing on price with Camcords and Sonatimas on much cheaper platforms.

 

Ford does have a cost disadvantage with Fusion/Mondeo compared to similar sedans from Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Hyundai, but not because of an "expensive platform". Ford's expenses are greater because their product development and manufacturing processes aren't as efficient. CD4 platform did lead to some improvements in those areas compared to older Ford platforms, but Ford's competitors still have an advantage in bringing new and redesigned vehicles to market quickly and efficiently.

 

Also, Camry, Accord, Altima, Sonata, and Optima benefit from greater economies of scale. Their parent companies sell more of those vehicles or closely related models in markets like Japan, South Korea, Southeast Asia, etc. than Ford does with Fusion/Mondeo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, akirby said:

Ford isnt allowed to sell cars in Japan like the Japanese sell theirs here.

 

Of course Ford is allowed to sell cars in Japan. It's not Japan's fault that Ford exited that market. It's entirely Ford's inability to compete that led to their decision to pull out. https://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/01/26/ford-surrenders-to-japan/#410c99c150a3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I 'm sure the tooling budget has long been paid off on the Fusion. With no significant change since 2013 to date .

The buyers kept dwindling because the vehicle was largely unchanged. The best car vehicle they produced and it was abandoned year after year. In the prime sales were plus 300,000 units per year. Buyers aren't stupid they want something significantly refreshed when it comes time for purchasing not the same old with different color or wheels.  Buyers are not all moving away from cars Japanese sell a ton in the US and Canada. Not everyone wants a SUV that is over priced an less fuel efficient. Artificial  price gouging of the public for SUV's . Think about it 2 extra pieces of glass and a few more  square feet of steel yield thousands and thousands  higher price yet all the same convince   and optional features  on both cars and SUV's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bat Leather interior for the Wuhan Edition?  "Sync" system with hot and cold running hand sanitizer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Of course Ford is allowed to sell cars in Japan. It's not Japan's fault that Ford exited that market. It's entirely Ford's inability to compete that led to their decision to pull out. https://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/01/26/ford-surrenders-to-japan/#410c99c150a3

 

The Japanese market is hardly open.  In 2019, about 4,825,000 vehicle sales were to domestic (Japanese) manufacturers.  Only 367,000 were to foreign manufacturers.  In percentage terms, 93% Japanese, 7% foreign.  Toyota was the top seller at about 1,550,000 vehicles. Mercedes was the top foreign make at 66,500.  Jeep came in at 13,400.  

 

https://www.best-selling-cars.com/japan/2019-full-year-japan-best-selling-car-brands-and-market-analysis/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

1 minute ago, mackinaw said:

 

The Japanese market is hardly open.  In 2019, about 4,825,000 vehicle sales were to domestic (Japanese) manufacturers.  Only 367,000 were to foreign manufacturers.  In percentage terms, 93% Japanese, 7% foreign.  Toyota was the top seller at about 1,550,000 vehicles. Mercedes was the top foreign make at 66,500.  Jeep came in at 13,400.  

 

https://www.best-selling-cars.com/japan/2019-full-year-japan-best-selling-car-brands-and-market-analysis

 

 

 

The Japanese market is open to whom ever wants to sell there, the problem is that unlike ROW world countries Japanese are very loyal to brands (similar to Koreans) as well as it is predominantly a B sized market (Kei cars). Ford, FCA, VW don’t make B sized vehicles in the way that appeal to Japanese buyers. Mini had a following for a while however reliability proved a major problem with buys that had been used to Japanese behind durability. Japan also displacement tax, environmental rules as well as very tight parking in big cities. If you don’t build what the market wants you will fail. 
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

The Japanese market is hardly open.  In 2019, about 4,825,000 vehicle sales were to domestic (Japanese) manufacturers.  Only 367,000 were to foreign manufacturers.  In percentage terms, 93% Japanese, 7% foreign.  Toyota was the top seller at about 1,550,000 vehicles. Mercedes was the top foreign make at 66,500.  Jeep came in at 13,400.  

 

https://www.best-selling-cars.com/japan/2019-full-year-japan-best-selling-car-brands-and-market-analysis/

 

Don't confuse him with facts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Japan is also RHD market so why would they buy LHD vehicles from GM and Ford

There is a RHD Mustang but the clueless tools in Detroit would never.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, smsfordman said:

I 'm sure the tooling budget has long been paid off on the Fusion. With no significant change since 2013 to date .

The buyers kept dwindling because the vehicle was largely unchanged. The best car vehicle they produced and it was abandoned year after year. In the prime sales were plus 300,000 units per year. Buyers aren't stupid they want something significantly refreshed when it comes time for purchasing not the same old with different color or wheels.  Buyers are not all moving away from cars Japanese sell a ton in the US and Canada. Not everyone wants a SUV that is over priced an less fuel efficient. Artificial  price gouging of the public for SUV's . Think about it 2 extra pieces of glass and a few more  square feet of steel yield thousands and thousands  higher price yet all the same convince   and optional features  on both cars and SUV's.

 

Don't confuse your wants with the actual market.

 

Car sales have shrunk drastically in the US



In 2019, S.U.V.s and pickups are grabbing a record 70 percent of the market, with 5.9 million sales through June versus 2.5 million for cars. Sales of midsize sedans have nose-dived, from 3 million in 2012 to 1.9 million last year. One of every five cars sold was a midsize sedan in 2012; today it’s barely one in 10.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/12/business/suv-sedan-detroit-fight.html

 

What it boils down to is the customer is willing to spend more money on a product they think is more flexible for their needs and keep it longer. The fuel economy issue is a wash...once you get over 20 MPG, you hit the point of diminishing returns on your fuel ups actually being cheaper overall. If you have one car that gets 20MPG vs 25MPG, it works out to about 20 bucks a month in savings...if your that tight with money, maybe you should look at other things. 

 

With the sedan market-with lesser demand for a product and more competition for it, it drops prices, cutting into profitability of those items.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Don't confuse your wants with the actual market.

 

Car sales have shrunk drastically in the US

 

With the sedan market-with lesser demand for a product and more competition for it, it drops prices, cutting into profitability of those items.  

 

You’re right - car sales have shrunk , but its still a large market. Other than F150, which Ford models are selling as well as either Camry or Accord? Competition in the car market is not increasing, it is decreasing as US makers exit cars. Competition is increasing on the SUV and truck side where Ford is moving to. I still think Ford could make a reasonable profit on a NG Fusion which shouldn’t cost a fortune to develop as powertrains would be common to other C2 models and much would be shared with the NG Edge (just as it is now). A  NG Fusion should be able to sell close to 100,000 units annually as long as it is class leading. Stop building the cheap fleet models and concentrate on the retail market with a really desirable model.Ford has lots of excess capacity, even if they make only a 3 or 4% return, for example, its still better than zero. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Trader 10 said:

I still think Ford could make a reasonable profit on a NG Fusion which shouldn’t cost a fortune to develop as powertrains would be common to other C2 models and much would be shared with the NG Edge (just as it is now). A  NG Fusion should be able to sell close to 100,000 units annually as long as it is class leading. Stop building the cheap fleet models and concentrate on the retail market with a really desirable model.

 

What makes you think that's not the plan?   I think they just have to wait until Mexico and Oakville are converted to C2 and they get the new vehicles launched including the next gen Edge.  At that point they should have some excess plant capacity.   Pretty sure they're already working on a C2 based Mondeo in Europe.   Could also see a return of Focus.

 

However, the more desirable models may not be sedan body styles.

 

28 minutes ago, Trader 10 said:

Ford has lots of excess capacity, even if they make only a 3 or 4% return, for example, its still better than zero. 

 

They may have excess plant capacity but not vehicle development resources.  You can't build what hasn't yet been designed and engineered.  That's where the real savings came from by cancelling Focus, Fiesta and Fusion.  And even though it's built on a common platform with shared powertrains it still requires significant resources.

Edited by akirby

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, akirby said:

They may have excess plant capacity but not vehicle development resources.  You can't build what hasn't yet been designed and engineered.  That's where the real savings came from by cancelling Focus, Fiesta and Fusion.  And even though it's built on a common platform with shared powertrains it still requires significant resources.

Lacking development resources makes all the money spent on the autonomous program particularly grating. Who in their right mind would short change product development to fund projects that are years from producing any returns, if any. It’s difficult for auto makers to generate much income when they have lots of excess capacity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Trader 10 said:

Lacking development resources makes all the money spent on the autonomous program particularly grating. Who in their right mind would short change product development to fund projects that are years from producing any returns, if any. It’s difficult for auto makers to generate much income when they have lots of excess capacity.

 

People who are forward thinking and looking out for the company's long term viability?

 

Seriously though - I don't think AVs were the big resource drain.  I think it was all the new vehicles - BEV F150 and Transit, Mach-E, Hybrid F150 and Mustang, Bronco, Bronco Sport, PHEV Corsair and Aviator, new small C utility and truck.  Plus some things we haven't heard about yet.   That's a lot of vehicle development in addition to the normal refreshes on the existing vehicles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, akirby said:

 

 

They may have excess plant capacity but not vehicle development resources.  You can't build what hasn't yet been designed and engineered.  That's where the real savings came from by cancelling Focus, Fiesta and Fusion.  And even though it's built on a common platform with shared powertrains it still requires significant resources.

 

I thought that Ford is capacity-constrained...which is why the Focus and the Fusion got the ax. Ford wasn't going to use limited production capacity for vehicles that generate small profits. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone have any insider info they can reveal whether Ford is planning any new factories? Or is any possible new project like that going to have to wait for these new product launches to conclude?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I work at Cleveland Engine 1, and engine plant 2 next door has been sitting there idle since 2012. Hopes were for a battery/ev plant, but it is not happening. My understanding is its being sold.There is capacity around Ford, but the investment must not be worth the return.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×