Bronco Sport Impresses

[PREMiERdrum]

31 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

I’ve heard this mentioned numerous times as well, but an article just came out about how Farleys input on the sport changed its design from something curvy like the escape to what we got now.

 

https://fordauthority.com/2020/12/ford-bronco-sport-lacked-identity-prior-to-ceo-jim-farleys-input/

 

“According to the story, the 2021 Ford Bronco Sport initially resembled something with a more swept back and curvy profile. Currently, one major Ford product sports a similar appearance: the all-new 2020 Ford Escape. Management wasn’t enamored with those early sketches, and the Bronco Sport program languished until 2017, which is when Farley stepped in to provide some guidance for the team. 

 

He offered two words that ended up serving as an inspiration for the designers involved with its creation: “honest” and “robust.” They interpreted those words as a green light to reshape the Ford Bronco Sport into something more upright, boxy, and functional. Basically, a design that more clearly channeled the bigger Bronco’s DNA.”

 

Farley absolutely influenced the styling to be more like the 2dr/4dr, which didn't exist even in concept when the first Sport was penned. Earlier designs were less square, though from what I can tell not appreciably softer - than the end product.

 

From what I've seen I actually prefer some of the early front end treatments over what we got.

 

However, the product currently hitting lots is going to do very, very well.

[T-dubz]

4 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

In the I am not surprised department. David Tracey thought it was ok. He said it would sell well but wasn't truly impressed with it's off road chops. And the acceleration was alright with the 2.0.

 

I noticed this elsewhere, but David mentioned PTU overheating as a journalist from CNET I believe was flogging it in the sand. There were two reports of this, one a Big Bend (no PTU cooler) and a Badlands (with a cooler). That seemed to sour his mood on the Bronco. 

 

I hope the Badlands can handle a good floggging, especially  since it has a cooler.

 

https://jalopnik.com/the-2021-ford-bronco-sport-has-everything-it-needs-to-c-1845821988

Doug demuro’s review also said something similar about the 2.0 which kind of surprised me. I wonder if these guys are used to driving so many different types of cars that it gets hard to judge performance relative to the segment? 2.0 has been pretty quick for me, but I coming from a 4 cyl fusion. I guess if your driving super cars all the time it might be hard to appreciate the 2.0.

[jcartwright99]

40 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

Doug demuro’s review also said something similar about the 2.0 which kind of surprised me. I wonder if these guys are used to driving so many different types of cars that it gets hard to judge performance relative to the segment? 2.0 has been pretty quick for me, but I coming from a 4 cyl fusion. I guess if your driving super cars all the time it might be hard to appreciate the 2.0.

 

I fully expect the Badlands to be a low to mid 6 0-60 time. I mean I have a similar weighted Fusion with the 2.0. It's peppy. I always want more power but rarely am I flooring it and swearing because I needed more power. 

[probowler]

4 hours ago, PREMiERdrum said:

The positive press is well deserved. Bronco Sport is the real deal, and mostly because the initial engineering work was done with the understanding that it WAS the Bronco. 

 

The transactional payoff to the Maverick program is just, how do I say, :chef's kiss:. 

 

Re-re-re-confirmed with my guys today... MAP Job1 for 2dr/4dr is *highly* unlikely to be altered, and they are developing multiple contingencies to deal possible slowdowns in roof production. Some are quite... creative.

 

So what was with the people here a few months ago saying the sport was nothing special and that it essentially was the same 4x4 as the escape?

 

Those comments had me worried.

[valve]

1 hour ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

I fully expect the Badlands to be a low to mid 6 0-60 time. I mean I have a similar weighted Fusion with the 2.0. It's peppy. I always want more power but rarely am I flooring it and swearing because I needed more power. 

 

More likely the low to mid 7's. The Escape is high 6's and I expect this to be a bit slower.

[PREMiERdrum]

5 minutes ago, probowler said:

 

So what was with the people here a few months ago saying the sport was nothing special and that it essentially was the same 4x4 as the escape?

 

Those comments had me worried.

 

Those people obviously had zero exposure to the product. It's really, really good. 

[probowler]

5 hours ago, PREMiERdrum said:

Re-re-confirmed with my guys today... MAP Job1 for 2dr/4dr is *highly* unlikely to be altered, and they are developing multiple contingencies to deal possible slowdowns in roof production. Some are quite... creative.

 

You could literally sell the bronco without a roof And there are people that would still buy it lol.

 

It would be interesting if some local, in country builders stepped up to sell/offer an aftermarket option to such roofless broncos. The demand is certainly there depending on how severe the china roof shortage is. 

 

Perhaps when buying a bronco you could get a credit from ford  that could go to the roof of your choice as different version s becomes available

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by probowler

[silvrsvt]

2 minutes ago, probowler said:

It would be interesting if some local, in country builders stepped up to sell/offer an aftermarket option to such roofless broncos. The demand is certainly there depending on how severe the china roof shortage is. 

 

Since when is Michigan in China?

 

That is where the supplier is!!!!

 

Sounds like they got caught with their pants around their ankles when COVID hit and haven't been able to make headway.  

[probowler]

3 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Since when is Michigan in China?

 

That is where the supplier is!!!!

 

Sounds like they got caught with their pants around their ankles when COVID hit and haven't been able to make headway.  

Yikes, Michigan might be even worse from what I've heard of their governor. I thought it must be china when i heard it was a supplier issue, but a lockdown state makes sense too... Perhaps they should join tesla in relocating to texas?

[jcartwright99]

1 minute ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Since when is Michigan in China?

 

That is where the supplier is!!!!

 

Sounds like they got caught with their pants around their ankles when COVID hit and haven't been able to make headway.  

 

It's Ford's luck they have a vehicle that people are pounding down the door for, yet can't get the parts to produce it in a timely fashion. We'll look back on this year as such a cluster but one that was virtually out of Ford's control. I just hope everyone stays healthy at MAP when production starts. 

[HotRunrGuy]

Too bad they decided to build the tooling in Germany, rather than NA,,,,

 

https://papernewsnetwork.com/coronavirus-related-delays-on-webasto-roofs-prompt-bronco-launch-setback/

 

HRG

Edited December 9, 2020 by HotRunrGuy

[T-dubz]

Will the escapes pricing influence what the sport might eventually sell for? In my area, Escape SE’s now have $5500 in incentives. That would make an AWD SE sell for $24,500. Compared to a Big Bend sport at $30k (no incentives) it becomes a compelling option at a substantial discount over the sport. 

[akirby]

17 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

Will the escapes pricing influence what the sport might eventually sell for? In my area, Escape SE’s now have $5500 in incentives. That would make an AWD SE sell for $24,500. Compared to a Big Bend sport at $30k (no incentives) it becomes a compelling option at a substantial discount over the sport. 

Thats the point.  Let Escape have the lower end of the cost spectrum allowing Bronco Sport to maintain higher ATPs.  If Bronco Sport had to cover the low end it would either lose money or be full of compromises.

[ice-capades]

5 hours ago, T-dubz said:

Will the escapes pricing influence what the sport might eventually sell for? In my area, Escape SE’s now have $5500 in incentives. That would make an AWD SE sell for $24,500. Compared to a Big Bend sport at $30k (no incentives) it becomes a compelling option at a substantial discount over the sport. 

 

Regardless of the shared elements of the Escape and Bronco Sport, they're two different vehicles appealing to different customers needs, tastes, etc. 

[T-dubz]

9 hours ago, akirby said:

Thats the point.  Let Escape have the lower end of the cost spectrum allowing Bronco Sport to maintain higher ATPs.  If Bronco Sport had to cover the low end it would either lose money or be full of compromises.

Well at one point the escape was supposed to have higher ATP’s too, but now it has a ton of money on the hood. And why would it lose money? Do you think the sum of its parts cost more than the escape? Is the escape losing money on the low end? 

[ice-capades]

Just now, T-dubz said:

Well at one point the escape was supposed to have higher ATP’s too, but now it has a ton of money on the hood. And why would it lose money? Do you think the sum of its parts cost more than the escape? Is the escape losing money on the low end? 

 

I always question anytime I hear about Ford supposedly losing money on vehicles. Maybe some of the lower end units are sold as loss leaders in order to be competitive but Ford makes up on it with the higher trim levels. And Ford doesn't build anything it doesn't want to... in most cases regardless of what their Dealers want to satisfy customer demand.  

[akirby]

23 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

Well at one point the escape was supposed to have higher ATP’s too, but now it has a ton of money on the hood. And why would it lose money? Do you think the sum of its parts cost more than the escape? Is the escape losing money on the low end? 

 

I don't think anyone said the Escape should have higher ATPs.   When it debuted most folks said the MSRP was way too high.   So adding rebates just gets it back to where it probably should have been to start with.  It's the lowest cost vehicle other than Ecosport so it has to cover the lower end of the cost scale to generate volume.   They really need something more competitive below it to replace Ecosport.   Maybe Maverick will fill part of that niche.

 

When we talk about a vehicle losing money, we're talking about Net profit, not Gross profit.  I'm sure 99.99% of all vehicles Ford sells generate a gross profit against the manufacturing cost.  But you also have to add in the cost of advertising, engineering, design, testing, warranty repairs and all the overhead to support those tasks.   A 4% net profit on a $25K vehicle is only $1000.   Doesn't take much to eat that up.

 

Are they making money on a $28K Escape selling for $20K?  I doubt it but some could be offset by higher trims and especially by the hybrid models if they can get them built and out the door.   But having Bronco Sport will help.

 

When people see Escape or any other normal small crossover they think oh that's nice I should go look at them.   When they see Bronco Sport they either hate it or love it immediately and if they love it they're going to buy it with or without incentives.

[akirby]

10 hours ago, T-dubz said:

Will the escapes pricing influence what the sport might eventually sell for? In my area, Escape SE’s now have $5500 in incentives. That would make an AWD SE sell for $24,500. Compared to a Big Bend sport at $30k (no incentives) it becomes a compelling option at a substantial discount over the sport. 

 

People aren't buying Bronco Sports based on price.  They'll buy it because of the styling and capability and they won't be looking at an Escape.   Why is this so hard to understand?  It's an emotional purchase.   See it, love it, gotta have it, buy it.   You're not getting that type of emotional appeal from Escape or any other small crossover.

[T-dubz]

1 minute ago, akirby said:

 

People aren't buying Bronco Sports based on price.  They'll buy it because of the styling and capability and they won't be looking at an Escape.   Why is this so hard to understand?  It's an emotional purchase.   See it, love it, gotta have it, buy it.   You're not getting that type of emotional appeal from Escape or any other small crossover.

I think you are down playing how big a factor price is, especially in this segment. Here is a list of the incentives for its current competition:

 

compass - up to $4250 depending on trim

cherokee - up to $3750 depending on trim

Renegade - up to $3500 depending on trim

Crosstrek - no incentives but the top of the line model starts at $27k so it has a substantially lower price. 
 

There is a substantial price difference between the going rate for the competition and the msrp of the sport. IMO the emotional purchases will go away with the early adopters and the sport will be just another crossover in a year. It will need to be more competitive on price.

[akirby]

28 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

I think you are down playing how big a factor price is, especially in this segment. Here is a list of the incentives for its current competition:

 

compass - up to $4250 depending on trim

cherokee - up to $3750 depending on trim

Renegade - up to $3500 depending on trim

Crosstrek - no incentives but the top of the line model starts at $27k so it has a substantially lower price. 
 

There is a substantial price difference between the going rate for the competition and the msrp of the sport. IMO the emotional purchases will go away with the early adopters and the sport will be just another crossover in a year. It will need to be more competitive on price.

 

This is just my opinion and I could be wrong, but I think Bronco Sport has far better styling and far more capability (including accessories) than the ones you listed and that's why I think Ford will be able to keep prices relatively high and they'll use Escape and Ecosport to compete on price.

[rperez817]

32 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

IMO the emotional purchases will go away with the early adopters and the sport will be just another crossover in a year.

 

Yes sir T-dubz. This is a pattern that's been repeated over and over for decades on "emotional purchase" type vehicles. Bronco Sport will be no different, unless Ford deliberately keeps production volume extremely low.

[T-dubz]

13 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

This is just my opinion and I could be wrong, but I think Bronco Sport has far better styling and far more capability (including accessories) than the ones you listed and that's why I think Ford will be able to keep prices relatively high and they'll use Escape and Ecosport to compete on price.

I completely agree on the styling, I can’t stand FCA or Subaru designs ?. 

[FR739]

1 hour ago, T-dubz said:

I think you are down playing how big a factor price is, especially in this segment. 

You are correct.  A lot of people seem to think this BS is something it’s not.  At the end of the day it’s a compact SUV.  And the farther down you go in the market, the more price becomes a  factor.  It could be why they went kinda cheap on the interior, keep it at a certain price point.  There a trade off for it being able to handle gravel roads and light off-roading.  
 

Compact and subcompact SUVs are the new Civic/Fits, Fiesta/Focus, Etc.  Everything takes a back seat to price.  

[snooter]

It remains to be seen if BS can take the punishment in the real world...it is a premium escape (with aprops cheap intetior - which is fine if ford had built the thing right) with awd...damn good axles would have gone a long way 

[Deanh]

13 hours ago, akirby said:

Thats the point.  Let Escape have the lower end of the cost spectrum allowing Bronco Sport to maintain higher ATPs.  If Bronco Sport had to cover the low end it would either lose money or be full of compromises.

I think the BS spells the death knoll for the AWD Escape. I think youll see the Escapes #1 sellers will be the hybrids, plug ins an low end units...