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58 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


It doesn't help they put almost no marketing into Tundra. 

 

I'd almost buy one just to get that roll-down rear window.  Once you get used to hauling 10' lengths of conduit, or an 8' ladder inside an SUV, you get spoiled.

 

HRG

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2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


It doesn't help they put almost no marketing into Tundra. 

At this point, throwing a national advertising campaign at Tundra would probably be just a waste of money,

probably cost more than it would ever give back in increased sales.

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Toyota and the other foreign manufacturers can try as hard as they want and spend tons of money invested in their efforts but the full-size pickup market is unique to North America. The "Big 3" U.S. manufacturers have decades of experience and no one knows or understands the market better than Ford. And just when the competition thinks they've caught up, Ford raises the bar!  

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11 hours ago, jpd80 said:

It’s the same situation that Ranger and Colorado are in with Tacoma’s strong sales.

no matter what they do, Tacoma’s following and sales numbers will be unmoved....

A new Tundra might be great but getting more than token interest might be hard.

 

Eh, I wouldn't say it's quite the same - Ranger and Colorado are relatively close to Tacoma sales-wise, though you're correct that Tacoma sales haven't been greatly affected.  Tundra on the other hand, is barely a fraction of full size sales.

 

3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


It doesn't help they put almost no marketing into Tundra. 

 

They did at first back in '07 when the new one came out.  But it didn't do anything.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

They did at first back in '07 when the new one came out.  But it didn't do anything.


I remember that, it was tied heavily into their growing NASCAR presence. It's the only major marketing campaign I can remember for Tundra. You still see ads for it during NASCAR races but usually they stick with their generic Toyota brand ads with a racing theme. 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo

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On 4/2/2021 at 6:39 PM, rperez817 said:

 

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, if you look at retail sales only, Ford registered a double digit increase of about 23.1%. So it's actually the opposite of a horrendous quarter. A slight uptick in sales quantity combined with a major increase in sales quality thanks to the reduction in fleet sales.

But isn't that a little misleading? Q1 gross total Ford +1% vs gross total Toyota +23%; both combined retail & fleet. Hypothetically if Ford had sold 1 retail the previous qtr and 2 this qtr, that would be a 100% improvement. Given that Toyota historically sells fewer fleet as a percentage, they undoubtedly made more money (253,783T vs 213,700F).

I think Ford is moving in the right direction, and will need time to get costs and quality back under control. They need to concentrate on getting their upcoming launches right; as the vehicles come out of the plant, not, "We'll give you a loaner while we fix the recalls on your new Ford."

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5 minutes ago, Chrisgb said:

But isn't that a little misleading? Q1 gross total Ford +1% vs gross total Toyota +23%; both combined retail & fleet. Hypothetically if Ford had sold 1 retail the previous qtr and 2 this qtr, that would be a 100% improvement. Given that Toyota historically sells fewer fleet as a percentage, they undoubtedly made more money (253,783T vs 213,700F).

I think Ford is moving in the right direction, and will need time to get costs and quality back under control. They need to concentrate on getting their upcoming launches right; as the vehicles come out of the plant, not, "We'll give you a loaner while we fix the recalls on your new Ford."


The point is they’ve replaced fleet and car sales with retail truck and utility sales which in theory should be much more profitable.  And they still haven’t launched Bronco and Maverick.  So that’s not a bad result all things considered.  

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46 minutes ago, akirby said:


The point is they’ve replaced fleet and car sales with retail truck and utility sales which in theory should be much more profitable.  And they still haven’t launched Bronco and Maverick.  So that’s not a bad result all things considered.  

 

Everyone is always very quick to discount the value of fleet sales that, although not as profitable as retail sales, have long term and other benefits to the company. They help fill production schedules at the plants, put products into important fleet and government accounts that can influence potential retail sales, enhance the company's reputation and fleet market presence, etc. Ford invests a lot in engineering vehicles specifically for the Police market and excels in that market. Should they abandon the Police market because it's not just as profitable as the retail market? They don't because of the other benefits. 

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I find it interesting that they dumped the car market, except for Mustang, which must still have decent margins considering they sell only around 100K each year. What margins are the other manufacturers getting to continue selling them? 

 

I would love for Ford to enter back in with a shared platform with top notch performance and styling.  Maybe then they could price them with decent enough margins to continue in this market.  Never agreed with basically abandoning the market altogether...

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2 hours ago, danglin said:

I find it interesting that they dumped the car market, except for Mustang, which must still have decent margins considering they sell only around 100K each year. What margins are the other manufacturers getting to continue selling them? 

 

I would love for Ford to enter back in with a shared platform with top notch performance and styling.  Maybe then they could price them with decent enough margins to continue in this market.  Never agreed with basically abandoning the market altogether...


Other mfrs don’t have the same opportunities as Ford.  The resources that Ford saved by cancelling focus and fusion went towards Bronco, Bronco Sport, Ranger and Maverick as well as the new BEVs.  As an example Hyundai doesn’t have a Bronco or Ranger to invest in so they stick with cars and crossovers.  Each mfr is in a different place with respect to market opportunities, factory capacity, institutional knowledge and platforms.

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6 hours ago, danglin said:

I find it interesting that they dumped the car market, except for Mustang, which must still have decent margins considering they sell only around 100K each year. What margins are the other manufacturers getting to continue selling them? 

 

I would love for Ford to enter back in with a shared platform with top notch performance and styling.  Maybe then they could price them with decent enough margins to continue in this market.  Never agreed with basically abandoning the market altogether...

Toyota currently has deals with BMW (Supra) and Subaru (86). They also had the Yaris based off of a Mazda and recently did a joint venture with mazda on a plant in Alabama. It would be interesting to see ford take this approach to bring back sedans. Surely it would be much cheaper than developing a sedan all on their own. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, akirby said:


Other mfrs don’t have the same opportunities as Ford.  The resources that Ford saved by cancelling focus and fusion went towards Bronco, Bronco Sport, Ranger and Maverick as well as the new BEVs.  As an example Hyundai doesn’t have a Bronco or Ranger to invest in so they stick with cars and crossovers.  Each mfr is in a different place with respect to market opportunities, factory capacity, institutional knowledge and platforms.

Correct.

This is often missed when well meaning folks quote the remarkable Toyota  mid and compact sales numbers,

the assumption being that those high sales must surely bring lots of profit with them but, is that really the case?

Toyota has dedicated  two plants to 47k per month RAV4 sales which is fine so long as nothing changes,

that’s more about combining existing RAV4 buyers with transferring Camry buyers but the main point is that 

Toyota will keep as many car sales as possible because it gives them total sales bragging rights.

Edited by jpd80

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1 hour ago, T-dubz said:

Toyota currently has deals with BMW (Supra) and Subaru (86). They also had the Yaris based off of a Mazda and recently did a joint venture with mazda on a plant in Alabama. It would be interesting to see ford take this approach to bring back sedans. Surely it would be much cheaper than developing a sedan all on their own. 

 

Seems to me the profits are in Sport sedans like a 4 dr Mustang and Lincoln sport sedan based upon the same platform. Low volume and high profit margin. Let GM do the Malibu rental special. Take on high trim Charger, BMW, and MB. The Mustang has the pedigree to run with anyone in a straight line or road course. 

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20 hours ago, ice-capades said:

Should they abandon the Police market because it's not just as profitable as the retail market? They don't because of the other benefits. 

 

Some Ford employees last summer recommended that the company stop producing police cars in the U.S. market, but for reasons other than their low profitability. Ford executives did not pursue that recommendation. America’s Great Racial Reckoning Comes To The Auto Industry As Some Ford Employees Call For End Of Cop Car Manufacturing (jalopnik.com)

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9 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

The Mustang has the pedigree to run with anyone in a straight line or road course. 

 

Yes sir FordBuyer. In addition to its performance capabilities, the Mustang nameplate is the only passenger car nameplate at Ford that still has a good reputation globally nowadays. Ford's decision to make Mustang a sub-brand, starting with Mach-E, was brilliant.

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2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Some Ford employees last summer recommended that the company stop producing police cars in the U.S. market, but for reasons other than their low profitability. Ford executives did not pursue that recommendation. America’s Great Racial Reckoning Comes To The Auto Industry As Some Ford Employees Call For End Of Cop Car Manufacturing (jalopnik.com)

 

Well, the constant media picture of Mr. Floyd being strangled to death along side an Explorer cop car is certainly not a good image. And anyone seeing an Explorer coming up quick in one's rear view mirror will probably have a quickening heartbeat. That being said, I support Ford staying in the cop car business. 

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On 4/5/2021 at 12:26 PM, FordBuyer said:

 

Well, the constant media picture of Mr. Floyd being strangled to death along side an Explorer cop car is certainly not a good image. And anyone seeing an Explorer coming up quick in one's rear view mirror will probably have a quickening heartbeat. That being said, I support Ford staying in the cop car business. 

 

lol. really?  I doubt that.

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Well, look how years past we would hear the word "Bronco", and the thought most of us think of at first is "OJ Simpson"... 

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8 hours ago, ANTAUS said:

Well, look how years past we would hear the word "Bronco", and the thought most of us think of at first is "OJ Simpson"... 

That is a bit different.  We had a lot of video of the police “chasing” a white Ford Bronco.  The Bronco was the focus of the videos.  In the Floyd case, most of my friends had no idea there was an Explorer in the video. 

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29 minutes ago, CurtisH said:

That is a bit different.  We had a lot of video of the police “chasing” a white Ford Bronco.  The Bronco was the focus of the videos.  In the Floyd case, most of my friends had no idea there was an Explorer in the video. 

 

I don't think anybody was looking at the vehicle or recognizing it was an Explorer.

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16 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

I don't think anybody was looking at the vehicle or recognizing it was an Explorer.

 

Agreed. The Explorer didn't have anything to do with what was happening. The whole focus was on the event itself. 

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On 4/2/2021 at 8:04 AM, 70 Stang said:

Over 84,000 F-150's.....pretty good with a chip shortage for the last month or so!

Where are all of the high trim models? My dealer has next to nothing above Lariat. They usually have around 250-300 trucks on the lot and currently only have about 60. Seems like a bad year to want to buy a truck.

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On 4/2/2021 at 9:40 AM, bzcat said:

 

 

Ranger sales momentum seems to stall at 100k annual volume which was the 2020 total (101k). I had expected the sales to continue to increase and for Ranger to pass the Chevy+GMC twins but that may not happen. With Nissan back in the segment I think we may see Ranger sales volume fall this year. 

I think many are waiting for the new Ranger. I like the look of the current one and considered the Tremor, but think it needs a more premium interior than what's currently offered. I plan on buying something by the end of this year and will likely miss the updated Ranger.

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4 hours ago, MKX1960 said:

Where are all of the high trim models? My dealer has next to nothing above Lariat. They usually have around 250-300 trucks on the lot and currently only have about 60. Seems like a bad year to want to buy a truck.

Fords total F Series inventory is less than half of what it should be with most dealers having a fraction of that.

March was a remarkable selling month for F Series, one where Ford gutted inventory trying to restock dealers.

Stock is just so tight at the moment that getting incentives and discounts is hard when demand is so strong...

 

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