2024 Mustang Spied

[FordBuyer]

1 hour ago, 30 OTT 6 said:

Hopefully Jenny Craig is on the S650 design team.

 

Gonna be hard adding battery and electric motors unless vehicle itself is smaller and aluminum. 

[jpd80]

5 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Gonna be hard adding battery and electric motors unless vehicle itself is smaller and aluminum. 

I doubt the weight shift will be that dramatic, no one is talking aluminium or anything like that.

 

The other thought is that hybrids are in the form of Powerboost where more emphasis is placed on the electric side being a power adder. That would be seen as helpful with the 2.3 EB and an interesting addition to the V8 instead of a supercharger.

Edited January 25, 2022 by jpd80

[bzcat]

I think some of you are over thinking the hybrid Mustang a bit. Ford has 4 levels of electrification:

 

1. 48V hybrid - basically all the ICE models sold in Europe will be 48V by 2025 as models get mid cycle update Ford will phase out non-48V drivetrain

2. Full hybrid

3. Powerboost PHEV 

4. BEV

 

Ford doesn't sell any 48V hybrid in the US currently but I think Mustang is a good candidate for it. You are adding only a tiny battery so no massive chassis engineering work is required and it satisfies Ford's claim that it is "electrified".  It works with a belt-driven integrated starter/generator in place of the standard alternator enables recovery and storage of energy usually lost during braking and coasting to charge a 48-volt lithium-ion air-cooled battery pack.

 

Will Ford go a step further with full hybrid? Maybe... but that will involve reducing cargo space and/or removing the back seat, and pretty extensive new crash testing modeling. Not sure Ford wants to invest that kind of money on Mustang. Had Ford gone ahead with CD6 Mustang, then yes, I think it is 100% certain we would have full hybrid and also PHEV Mustang. But since S650 is mildly tweaked S550, I think we are looking at 48V implementation. The 48V investment in 5.0 V8 will also pay off in F-150. I think if Ford did it, it will be rolled out across the board on all F-150 with 5.0 V8.

 

 

 

 

[jpd80]

Hybrid Mustang uses elements borrowed from CD6, I’ve heard rumours that  the battery tucks under the floor pan like Escape.

[tk421]

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Hybrid Mustang uses elements borrowed from CD6, I’ve heard rumours that  the battery tucks under the floor pan like Escape.

Interesting. That would make sense. 

 

 

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Hybrid Mustang uses elements borrowed from CD6, I’ve heard rumours that  the battery tucks under the floor pan like Escape.

Makes sense, we've heard that the s650, while not based on the cd6, it would use some cd6 components. Always assumed those cd6 parts would be tied into the hybrids more than anything else. Hopefully using hybrid components from the cd6 won't add too much weight.

 

[jpd80]

5 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Makes sense, we've heard that the s650, while not based on the cd6, it would use some cd6 components. Always assumed those cd6 parts would be tied into the hybrids more than anything else. Hopefully using hybrid components from the cd6 won't add too much weight.

 

If the hybrids are similar to Ford’s other RWD based hybrids, they probably replace the torque converter with a 44 hp /221 lb ft motor connected to a 1.4 Kwhr battery, the power and torque of the electric motor have different peak rpm’s to the ICE so combined power torque will probably boost the bottom torque and only slightly improve horsepower. Judging by some of the existing hybrids, I’d suspect the following is entirely possible:

2.3 Powerboost 300 hp @ 5,500 rpm / 380 lb ft @ 2,500 - 4,000 rpm

5.0 Powerboost 500 hp @ 7,500 rpm / 500 lb ft @ 3,000 - 4,500 rpm

 

Maybe the final figures will be  more conservative that the above but, I’m glad that Ford chose the 2.3 engine over the 3.3 hybrid in the Explorer and F150, that would have been an easy to do job done engine but an engine for another time….

Edited January 26, 2022 by jpd80

[DeluxeStang]

5 hours ago, jpd80 said:

If the hybrids are similar to Ford’s other RWD based hybrids, they probably replace the torque converter with a 44 hp /221 lb ft motor connected to a 1.4 Kwhr battery, the power and torque of the electric motor have different peak rpm’s to the ICE so combined power torque will probably boost the bottom torque and only slightly improve horsepower. Judging by some of the existing hybrids, I’d suspect the following is entirely possible:

2.3 Powerboost 300 hp @ 5,500 rpm / 380 lb ft @ 2,500 - 4,000 rpm

5.0 Powerboost 500 hp @ 7,500 rpm / 500 lb ft @ 3,000 - 4,500 rpm

 

Maybe the final figures will be  more conservative that the above but, I’m glad that Ford chose the 2.3 engine over the 3.3 hybrid in the Explorer and F150, that would have been an easy to do job done engine but an engine for another time….

I think those power figures are pretty close to what we'll get, that being said, doesn't the 2.3 in mustang form already make like 300 something hp? I would expect a hybrid 2.3 to make something like 350-400 hp to slot in between the normal 2.3, and the 5.0, kinda as a replacement to the 2.3 high output that they made.

[Twin Turbo]

I'd also hope we see a Gen 4 Coyote in S650........a nice round 500hp and perhaps 430 lb/ft........add hybrid assist for 550hp & 600 lb/ft. Wishful thinking, perhaps.

 

 

 

[jcartwright99]

26 minutes ago, Twin Turbo said:

I'd also hope we see a Gen 4 Coyote in S650........a nice round 500hp and perhaps 430 lb/ft........add hybrid assist for 550hp & 600 lb/ft. Wishful thinking, perhaps.

 

 

 

 

I'd think it's possible but probably a little lower than that. It's interesting Ford is going forward with S650 in this climate. I am almost positive GM is not going to be updating the Camaro. There may be an electric version but it's all speculation.

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

I'd think it's possible but probably a little lower than that. It's interesting Ford is going forward with S650 in this climate. I am almost positive GM is not going to be updating the Camaro. There may be an electric version but it's all speculation.

 

Most likely because a lot current buyers are so against a BEV Mustang...it will happen by the end of the decade, but it still has an audience for the next 5-7 being ICE/Hybrid powered. 

[rperez817]

50 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Most likely because a lot current buyers are so against a BEV Mustang. 

 

Those people who "are so against a BEV Mustang" will quickly change their minds once they experience the superior performance that a BEV powertrain and chassis offers. 

[silvrsvt]

22 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Those people who "are so against a BEV Mustang" will quickly change their minds once they experience the superior performance that a BEV powertrain and chassis offers. 

 

If social media is anything to take a measurement of, there are a lot of "knuckle draggers" that don't want no golf cart LOL

 

There is a lot of convincing that needs to be done with many people and electric vehicles. 

[jcartwright99]

13 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

If social media is anything to take a measurement of, there are a lot of "knuckle draggers" that don't want no golf cart LOL

 

There is a lot of convincing that needs to be done with many people and electric vehicles. 

 

I agree. I mean lets be honest here.  One of the reasons traditional automakers have been hesitant is if they start building electrics and nobody buys them. I predict the truck market will be the hardest nut to crack before a majority of buyers are ready for electric trucks. Probably 20% of that crowd is still V8 or death, scoffing at a V6TT or hybrid.

[rperez817]

53 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

There is a lot of convincing that needs to be done with many people and electric vehicles. 

 

Yes sir silvrsvt, that is true. Lots of opportunities exist for both automakers and current BEV owners to get the word out about why all electric propulsion is better. My wife and I are doing our part offering test drives of her Mustang Mach-E First Edition to friends and neighbors, and also to people who come to events hosted by North Texas Electric Auto Association. We've successfully converted several BEV skeptics into believers. ?

[jasonj80]

16 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

I agree. I mean lets be honest here.  One of the reasons traditional automakers have been hesitant is if they start building electrics and nobody buys them. I predict the truck market will be the hardest nut to crack before a majority of buyers are ready for electric trucks. Probably 20% of that crowd is still V8 or death, scoffing at a V6TT or hybrid.

The problem is manufactures are caught between a rock and a hard spot you have a 4-5 year lead time from planning to production. A group of people want them and are making legislation and rules so that they force the manufactures to build them and get investment funds to fund future operations. When you go to a lot and that is the only thing that is there, that is what you will end up driving; you can't get a V8 because no one offers them you as the consumer must change as what you want isn't available. Is a large enough population going to want a V8 if in 5-10 years the electric version is faster, handles better and is cheaper to operate? It gets to a point where the ROI isn't worth it. 
 

[tzach]

I have no doubt the power will be more than enough.  It is the sound and the shifting I will miss, but I get sacrifices always need to be made in the name of progress.  Sad but inevitable.

[mackinaw]

34 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

....... A group of people want them and are making legislation and rules so that they force the manufactures to build them and get investment funds to fund future operations.......

 

I love this:

 

[DeluxeStang]

3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

If social media is anything to take a measurement of, there are a lot of "knuckle draggers" that don't want no golf cart LOL

 

There is a lot of convincing that needs to be done with many people and electric vehicles. 

True, I think it will be a lot easier for Ford to win over Ecoboost mustang owners with an ev, compared to the v8 guys. V8 mustang fans are going to take forever to come around lol.

[DeluxeStang]

3 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

I agree. I mean lets be honest here.  One of the reasons traditional automakers have been hesitant is if they start building electrics and nobody buys them. I predict the truck market will be the hardest nut to crack before a majority of buyers are ready for electric trucks. Probably 20% of that crowd is still V8 or death, scoffing at a V6TT or hybrid.

A hard nut to crack for sure, but truck owners seem to care about longevity, and durability more than anything else. So it seems like Ford, and other brands, are appealing to this audience my marketing their evs as being more reliable, and costing less to operate long term.

[AGR]

7 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

I'd think it's possible but probably a little lower than that. It's interesting Ford is going forward with S650 in this climate. I am almost positive GM is not going to be updating the Camaro. There may be an electric version but it's all speculation.

The rumor or supposed insider info is that the next Camaro will be an electric 4 door "coupe" debuting in 2025 or so.

[ausrutherford]

3 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

I love this:

 

 

This guy also thinks he can juggle Peugeot, Citreon, Opel/Vauxhall, DS, Fiat, Abarth, Lancia, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, and Ram without any issues...

[mackinaw]

39 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

This guy also thinks he can juggle Peugeot, Citreon, Opel/Vauxhall, DS, Fiat, Abarth, Lancia, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, and Ram without any issues...

 

May be, but he's right.  Consumer demand isn't driving BEV's, governments and politicians are.

[slemke]

6 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Those people who "are so against a BEV Mustang" will quickly change their minds once they experience the superior performance that a BEV powertrain and chassis offers. 

It isn’t solely about the best numbers on paper (unless you live in your parent’s basement and will never buy, just bench racing), but about the experience.  A naturally aspirated 5.0L V8 and manual transmission are still offered for that reason.  The 10 speed auto is faster, gets better gas milage, and easier to drive…but enough still want the manual transmission.  I don’t see any reason this wouldn’t apply when a BEV version is offered, provided it isn’t outright outlawed.  My prediction is the last ice passenger vehicle produced will be a v8 with a manual transmission.

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, mackinaw said:

Consumer demand isn't driving BEV's, governments and politicians are.

 

The automotive industry is heavily regulated, so governments and politicians will always play a major role.

 

Consumers have long demanded BEV that are more than just regulatory compliance products though. Until Tesla Model S came out a decade ago, the global automotive industry failed to respond to that demand. Nowadays, both startup and incumbent automakers produce desirable, well designed BEV.

 

Mustang Mach-E is one the best vehicles Ford has ever designed, as is F-150 Lightning. Both products have consumer demand in excess of Ford's capacity to produce them. A future Mustang Coupe BEV or Mustang Convertible BEV should be similarly successful.