Maverick Sold out for 2022

[mackinaw]

My local dealer, finally, got a Maverick.  Saw it parked out front.  It sold within two days.

[jcartwright99]

14 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

 

Ford has not yet released the 2023 Model Year timeline. The 2023 Maverick Order Guide will be released at the same time the USOB (Unscheduled Order Bank) opens and will include the information on any product changes. 

 

Here's a sample of the MSRP and Dealer Invoice pricing for a 2022 Maverick AWD w/#300A, Ford Co-Pilot 360, Floor Liners w/Carpeted Floor Mats. MSRP - Invoice = $533!  

 

 

That's less than I thought. Interesting. Clearly this was designed to be a volume truck...(cue in the sad horn from the prices right). 

 

Is there any disadvantage for a dealer not to take an A/Z plan order for a Maverick (or any other Ford vehicle)? They get reimbursed by Ford, correct?  I've heard two different things from the biggest volume dealer by me so that's why I am asking. One was they aren't doing any Ford discounts, even on orders. The other being they would allow discounts (A/Z but no X) on orders. I'm trying to think of pros/con for each.

 

As a sales person, time spent vs money gained is real. I'd assume if I did order a Maverick, I'd have to be upfront with my expectations. IE, put my order in, write up my agreement, and call me if there is an issue or it's delivered.

 

[akirby]

The difference between MSRP and invoice has shrunk the last few years especially on the lower priced vehicles.

 

I’ve seen dealers say they make more on A/Z/D plan than X plan due to the spiff check but I do t know for sure.

[bzcat]

8 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Just a feeling but I think that Maverick made in Thailand and exported in RHD and LHD as Ranger is  now would do better than some expect but I know that Ford is unwilling to do that even after major expansion of manufacturing facilities…it would make a good replacement for the European built Escape which is selling like shit because over priced.

 

I think Ford is making Ranger in both plants in Thailand now so no room for Maverick. 

 

In theory, Ford can export RHD Maverick from Mexico just fine if they put RHD Kuga/Escape or Focus dashboard in Maverick. But that will look a bit odd. 

 

Ultimately, it is up to Ford APAC to put together a business case for Maverick. Between Thailand, Aus, NZ and Southern Africa, there is probably 50k annual volume for RHD and maybe another 50k for LHD in Taiwan, Philippines, Vietnam, North Africa and Middle East if Ford has the capacity in the region (spoiler alert... they don't anymore after shutting down the two Indian plants )

Edited February 3, 2022 by bzcat

[jpd80]

26 minutes ago, bzcat said:

 

I think Ford is making Ranger in both plants in Thailand now so no room for Maverick. 

 

In theory, Ford can export RHD Maverick from Mexico just fine if they put RHD Kuga/Escape or Focus dashboard in Maverick. But that will look a bit odd. 

 

Ultimately, it is up to Ford APAC to put together a business case for Maverick. Between Thailand, Aus, NZ and Southern Africa, there is probably 50k annual volume for RHD and maybe another 50k for LHD in Taiwan, Philippines, Vietnam, North Africa and Middle East if Ford has the capacity in the region (spoiler alert... they don't anymore after shutting down the two Indian plants )

The cost of a dashboard is not the expensive part, it’s the RHD design pathway preservation , crash testing and field evaluation. All of that is roughly two years and over $200 million because not done at the same time as the major LHD development. Once that cost is singled out, it becomes hard to justify, a lovely vehicle to have but I know the moment has passed, they will just push Escape and wonder why it doesn’t sell…

Edited February 3, 2022 by jpd80

[bzcat]

13 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

The cost of a dashboard is not the expensive part, it’s the RHD design pathway preservation , crash testing and field evaluation. All of that is roughly two years and over $200 million because not done at the same time as the major LHD development. Once that cost is singled out, it becomes hard to justify, a lovely vehicle to have but I know the moment has passed, they will just push Escape and wonder why it doesn’t sell…

 

You are right of course about the money and time... but since this is C2, I think the pathway is still there. Everything before the firewall is the same as other C2 so it is just about money to get it certified for Aus NCAP and such. And this is where the math breaks down because volume is relatively low.

 

Interesting wildcard for Maverick (and Ranger) is China. Pickup trucks has emerged as the next big growth segment in China and the only foreign company selling current gen product in China are Nissan and Isuzu. Ford and GM are in it but with their local low cost brands - that's really focused on where the market has been, not where it is going. It would be interesting to see if Ford brings either Maverick or Ranger to China. 

 

[Deanh]

2 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

Ford has not yet released the 2023 Model Year timeline. The 2023 Maverick Order Guide will be released at the same time the USOB (Unscheduled Order Bank) opens and will include the information on any product changes. 

 

Here's a sample of the MSRP and Dealer Invoice pricing for a 2022 Maverick AWD w/#300A, Ford Co-Pilot 360, Floor Liners w/Carpeted Floor Mats. MSRP - Invoice = $533!  

and that one is upper end!!!!!..and it may surprise some that a base Bronco is similar...…lets add the ENTIRE Electric range where invoice IS MSRP and youll start questioning why the hell people sell for a living, and that some have an "attitude" as such ( and Ill come right out and say if I never help another BEV customer in my life it will be too soon...talk about high maintenance needy millennial pseudo engineers....")

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Deanh

[Deanh]

1 hour ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

That's less than I thought. Interesting. Clearly this was designed to be a volume truck...(cue in the sad horn from the prices right). 

 

Is there any disadvantage for a dealer not to take an A/Z plan order for a Maverick (or any other Ford vehicle)? They get reimbursed by Ford, correct?  I've heard two different things from the biggest volume dealer by me so that's why I am asking. One was they aren't doing any Ford discounts, even on orders. The other being they would allow discounts (A/Z but no X) on orders. I'm trying to think of pros/con for each.

 

As a sales person, time spent vs money gained is real. I'd assume if I did order a Maverick, I'd have to be upfront with my expectations. IE, put my order in, write up my agreement, and call me if there is an issue or it's delivered.

 

should I bring up all the absolutely asinine online tests and training Ford requires in order for the Sales personnel to have the "privilege'" of selling said item that pays diddly squat...oh the honor....

[Flying68]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

The difference between MSRP and invoice has shrunk the last few years especially on the lower priced vehicles.

 

I’ve seen dealers say they make more on A/Z/D plan than X plan due to the spiff check but I do t know for sure.

What kind of kickback due dealers get on X plan?  I just looked on Fordpartner.com and the difference between MSRP and X-Plan on a Maverick Lariat is $288.  At that point you really aren't saving anything.

[HotRunrGuy]

28 minutes ago, Deanh said:

should I bring up all the absolutely asinine online tests and training Ford requires in order for the Sales personnel to have the "privilege'" of selling said item that pays diddly squat...oh the honor....

 

Deanh, with all due respect, this begs a couple of questions;

 

1) In today's market, why stay in the profession?

 

2) Why do Dealership Associations and Trade Groups fight the online ordering model?

 

HRG

[akirby]

34 minutes ago, Flying68 said:

What kind of kickback due dealers get on X plan?  I just looked on Fordpartner.com and the difference between MSRP and X-Plan on a Maverick Lariat is $288.  At that point you really aren't saving anything.

Not sure but it’s probably not much.  I’m sure A-Z plan spiff is a lot bigger since it’s 4% below invoice.

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, Deanh said:

should I bring up all the absolutely asinine online tests and training Ford requires in order for the Sales personnel to have the "privilege'" of selling said item that pays diddly squat...oh the honor....

 

Come on Dean, online training is part of any job these days...shitty as it is. 

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Deanh, with all due respect, this begs a couple of questions;

 

1) In today's market, why stay in the profession?

 

2) Why do Dealership Associations and Trade Groups fight the online ordering model?

 

Exactly-It seems like its more of a pain then its worth.
 

As for number #2, major conglomerate dealerships (i.e Lithia. etc) make BILLIONS in revenue. Lithia stock is about $237 per share. They want to keep that gravy train going. 

[danglin]

2 hours ago, Deanh said:

and that one is upper end!!!!!..and it may surprise some that a base Bronco is similar...…lets add the ENTIRE Electric range where invoice IS MSRP and youll start questioning why the hell people sell for a living, and that some have an "attitude" as such ( and Ill come right out and say if I never help another BEV customer in my life it will be too soon...talk about high maintenance needy millennial pseudo engineers....")

 

 

You forgot to show holdback on that invoice! 

[ice-capades]

16 minutes ago, danglin said:

 

You forgot to show holdback on that invoice! 

 

That was a WBDO pricing sample, not an invoice. Besides, the holdback is less than you probably think. 

[rmc523]

11 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Just a feeling but I think that Maverick made in Thailand and exported in RHD and LHD as Ranger is  now would do better than some expect but I know that Ford is unwilling to do that even after major expansion of manufacturing facilities…it would make a good replacement for the European built Escape which is selling like shit because over priced.

 

I agree that I think Maverick would do well in a few places around the world where people may not want something as big as F-series, or even Ranger, but still want the utility of a truck.  But I guess Ford feels they have the markets figured out...

 

4 hours ago, Deanh said:

no stock units, no test drives, I wont use someones order that they have waited for for months as a guinea pig to help someone make up their minds IF they want to get a unit that they have to wait till summer to order, no way...the Owner would most likely be pissed....and once again, not be Devils advocate...but the profitability on Mavericks is absolutely dismal...so I understand why dealers ARE adding addendums, albeit some are ludicrous. We are at MSRP on reservations....an order falls through we add tires, Linex and accouple other little things and it rings in right in around 5k over. But you are getting something for the markup...its not just "market adjustment ) Now...if Ford had 2-3k markup from the get go in a Maverick, I doubt youd see anywhere near the amount some Dealers are asking...

 

Yeah, every dealer I've been to won't allow a test drive of someone's ordered or deposited vehicle.

 

Thankfully, my dealer is doing the same regarding ADMs - honoring MSRP for orders/reservations, otherwise it's whatever they want.  I appreciate your dealer at least adding a few features to somewhat justify an added charge (though I do always laugh when I see the dealer add ons for that extra dough, I'd rather see those than a pure ADM with nothing else).

 

My dealer a few weeks ago had a 1st Edition Bronco with like a 33k markup, and a Big Bend with like a 29k markup - I assume both were orders that fell through, so they added whatever they want - and no added content.  But, they were both gone within a few days to a week, so either someone paid that markup, or they were negotiated down....

Edited February 3, 2022 by rmc523

[Deanh]

1 hour ago, danglin said:

 

You forgot to show holdback on that invoice! 

literally, how much do you actually think that is?...lol.....

[Deanh]

3 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Deanh, with all due respect, this begs a couple of questions;

 

1) In today's market, why stay in the profession?

 

2) Why do Dealership Associations and Trade Groups fight the online ordering model?

 

HRG

no offence taken at all, the business ahs changed significantly in my "career"...I have over 30 years of loyal clients...I now have close to over 250 backed up orders being processed, so taking a "skinny" one every now and then doesn't bother me...now, the floor sales personnel have a different picture...they do NOT want to deal with high maintenance ( ie fresh customers ) question bombarding customers for weeks on end for the $50 or so they'll make on a Maverick transaction....I personally don't have the time to be wrapped up for hours on end with someone, especially given what a Maverick , Ecosport etc etc  ultimately adds to the paycheck, so Ill usually hand them over to someone else...As for the online ordering thats also easy...I literally input a 14 vehicle order this morning...it took me close to 3 1/2 hours scanning, adding the relevant information and uploading the order to Ford....again..not exactly time efficient..BUT, I do somewhat understand its purpose is to clamp down on the bogus orders several Dealers have benefitted from over the years...so in a way I consider it tolerable to stop Dealers gaming the system.

[HotRunrGuy]

20 minutes ago, Deanh said:

literally, how much do you actually think that is?...lol.....

?‍♂️ I know, I know, I know!

 

OK Dean, riddle me this. In the example I-C provided above, what do YOU think is a fair amount for the dealer to make on a sale?

 

HRG

[Deanh]

21 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

?‍♂️ I know, I know, I know!

 

OK Dean, riddle me this. In the example I-C provided above, what do YOU think is a fair amount for the dealer to make on a sale?

 

HRG

Ill turn that around....if you invested 20000 in something based on a return...what would you expect personally...10%....? If you loaned someone $80000....? Like akirby has documented, the profitability on vehicles has dropped significantly over the years and thus income...people LOVE complaining about how there Sales experience was when they purchased their vehicle, and that's going to get even worse the lower the sales persons income becomes...youll LOSE experience and just have a bunch of ex Burger flippers making $12 an hour stuck on their I phones really not wanting to help anyone. Im literally witnessing it, and you cannot expect a Dealer entity to pay a great wage based on the front end profitability Ford keeps chipping away at....make sense?....( does that somewhat explain how I react when I read stories of how someone ground the crap out of a sales person for two weeks to get the LOSER deal they felt they were entitled too?...and then BOAST about it? )

[rperez817]

4 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

Why do Dealership Associations and Trade Groups fight the online ordering model?

 

The dealership associations and trade groups are fighting manufacturer direct to consumer sales model, but not online ordering/selling. NADA for example has an eLearning workshop for dealers focused on digital retailing, including online ordering and sales. Digital Retailing: the 21st Century Road to the Sale (nada.org)

[Deanh]

25 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

The dealership associations and trade groups are fighting manufacturer direct to consumer sales model, but not online ordering/selling. NADA for example has an eLearning workshop for dealers focused on digital retailing, including online ordering and sales. Digital Retailing: the 21st Century Road to the Sale (nada.org)

personally, IMO its all about control...the Lightning orders are proof in the pudding.....

[Deanh]

next 10 years will be interesting for sure...with the questionable Go EV or go home mindset, ( which will come with its own set of isssues ) ever shrinking profit margins and increasing MSRPs, less skilled and lower quality sales staff, Manufacturers continuing to have more and more control over their Dealer franchise's, etc etc….IMO Ill sit back and observe, and be the first to state "careful what you wish for ." when the appropriate time comes...its going to be really fascinating and perhaps infuriating....

[danglin]

3 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

That was a WBDO pricing sample, not an invoice. Besides, the holdback is less than you probably think. 

 

I know it is not very much. I have seen invoices with holdback at my local dealer.  I was just messing with you, because I know there are people out there that think dealers make alot of money on new car sales!

[Deanh]

13 minutes ago, danglin said:

 

I know it is not very much. I have seen invoices with holdback at my local dealer.  I was just messing with you, because I know there are people out there that think dealers make alot of money on new car sales!

yep...double edged sword, from a pure business standpoint it kind of semi explains why theres addendums and the Backend is pushed...profitability has gone down and cost of doing business and cost of living has done exactly the opposite....