EV Problem: Mach-E Piling Up on Dealer Lots

[7Mary3]

FWIW, a quick check of my local Ford dealer show 55 2023 Mach-E's on the ground.  No more than 9 of any other 2023 Ford model, including F-150's, currently in stock.

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, 7Mary3 said:

FWIW, a quick check of my local Ford dealer show 55 2023 Mach-E's on the ground.  No more than 9 of any other 2023 Ford model, including F-150's, currently in stock.

 

Thanks 7Mary3. Wow, that's a really high number. Are all 55 Mustang Mach-E's at your dealership available for immediate sale and delivery, or are at least some of them customer pre-orders and/or in-transit?

 

The 3 Autonation Ford dealers in my area (Fort Worth, South Fort Worth, and Burleson) have 11 Mustang Mach-E's total among them. 2 of those are pre-sold and in-transit. For comparison, the same 3 dealerships list 172 regular F-150, 67 hybrid (Powerboost) F-150, and 6 F-150 Lightning in their new-car inventory. 2 of the 6 Lightnings listed are pre-sold and in-transit.

[jpd80]

Through some contacts, I have found that a big issue with Mach E inventory is that most buyers are ordering the bigger battery while Ford dealer orders are mostly the standard battery. This is where Ford has to watch what it’s building as the perception of insufficient range can be off putting to first time EV buyers.

[rmc523]

5 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Through some contacts, I have found that a big issue with Mach E inventory is that most buyers are ordering the bigger battery while Ford dealer orders are mostly the standard battery. This is where Ford has to watch what it’s building as the perception of insufficient range can be off putting to first time EV buyers.

Makes complete sense to me!

buyers are used to certain capabilities and ranges and don’t want to sacrifice something like that especially with charging concerns.

[jpd80]

10 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Makes complete sense to me!

buyers are used to certain capabilities and ranges and don’t want to sacrifice something like that especially with charging concerns.

Absolutely, combine that with an aggressive Tesla producing more Ys and I think we see where the demand has gone. It’s like Ford has blown its honeymoon period for the Mach E and now has another looming  problem of buyer indifference.

Edited July 14, 2023 by jpd80

[7Mary3]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Thanks 7Mary3. Wow, that's a really high number. Are all 55 Mustang Mach-E's at your dealership available for immediate sale and delivery, or are at least some of them customer pre-orders and/or in-transit?

 

The 3 Autonation Ford dealers in my area (Fort Worth, South Fort Worth, and Burleson) have 11 Mustang Mach-E's total among them. 2 of those are pre-sold and in-transit. For comparison, the same 3 dealerships list 172 regular F-150, 67 hybrid (Powerboost) F-150, and 6 F-150 Lightning in their new-car inventory. 2 of the 6 Lightnings listed are pre-sold and in-transit.

 

No, on the ground and ready to go.  What is a bit distressing is that dealership is in an affluent area of Southern California that has a very high rate of BEV acceptance.  I wonder what their sales rate is for Mach-E's. 

[Flying68]

PHEV's are a good solution for a lot of people. The problem is education of the owners. A secondary factor is most PHEV's have a rather small range on EV only, not really enough for a 2 way commute.

[ice-capades]

The Mustang Mach-E battery option has been a controlled commodity restraint. 

[jpd80]

35 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

The Mustang Mach-E battery option has been a controlled commodity restraint. 

Correct but now that Ford has a third shift and better battery supply, there’s no excuse

to not focus on building buyer orders and fast moving dealer stock.

 

Another example of Ford butchering what should be a no brainer high value sales?

[silvrsvt]

The dealership I got my Bronco from has about six of them of different types, running 2.9 for 60 months financing and an additional 1-3k discount depending on model type. 

[ice-capades]

15 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

The dealership I got my Bronco from has about six of them of different types, running 2.9 for 60 months financing and an additional 1-3k discount depending on model type. 

 

I go by my old office at least three times a week which has at least 3 Mach-E's in stock at any time with one on the showroom floor. It's rare that there's a Mach-E on display outside in front of the showroom. And I've yet to see a Mach-E on the road. 

[fordmantpw]

3 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

I go by my old office at least three times a week which has at least 3 Mach-E's in stock at any time with one on the showroom floor. It's rare that there's a Mach-E on display outside in front of the showroom. And I've yet to see a Mach-E on the road. 

 

Seriously?  None on the road yet?  I live in the middle of MO, very conservative and rural, and I see Mach-Es regularly.  Even saw an electric Kia and VW in our little small town in the past week.

[DeluxeStang]

4 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

I go by my old office at least three times a week which has at least 3 Mach-E's in stock at any time with one on the showroom floor. It's rare that there's a Mach-E on display outside in front of the showroom. And I've yet to see a Mach-E on the road. 

I'm stunned by that, I see mach-e's every week, and I live in Salt Lake City. Hardly a hub for electric vehicles. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by DeluxeStang

[Rangers09]

20 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

The big problem with the current crop of PHEV, including those from Ford, is they are ICE dominant. Research in both U.S. and Europe show that in real world usage, PHEV owners plug in those vehicles much less often than regulators assume. This is not the fault of the PHEV owner, but rather the design inherent to the current crop of PHEV, all of which have less than 50 miles AER. The Real Reason Why No One Ever Plugs In Their Plug-In Hybrid Vehicles (hotcars.com)

 

If automakers had true "extended range electric vehicles" (EREV) that are electric motor dominant with at least 75 miles AER, that could have addressed the transition say 5 years ago as AutoThink recommended (see diagram below). But in the U.S. market, only BMW i3 REx met that criteria, and it was discontinued in 2021. Ford is better off focusing on BEV rather than EREV at this point.

 

 

As a PHEV owner, we plug-in daily while at home and when going under 50 miles use nothing but electricity, with our local power being > 98% renewable. Until our recent trip, our first month of PHEV ownership was 100% electric. Away from home and unable to charge, we were about 50/50 use of hybrid/electric, using the engine to charge the battery when low.

 

When away from home, the reason we don't plug-in is due to the lack of available public chargers and outlets at our condo. On our latest trip, we eventually found a charger on the street, but am not prepared to sit for hours while it charges. Even in retirement, my time is valuable, especially when the choice is sitting waiting for the car to charge or taking grandson to another activity.

 

You may not agree with PHEV's, but for our needs it is the perfect solution, until they develop technology that BEV's have equivalent range and filling as petrol/diesel vehicles. I'm clearly not 100% certain they will get close, so will be watching the implementation of hydrogen fuel cells in the marine environment and possible transition of that technology to vehicles.

 

We have discussed this extensively with neighbours, who have recently purchased vehicles based on their needs. At present, we have zero BEV's, as the limitations do not meet our needs, but we have 5 PHEV's, all from different manufacturers. All of us use 100% electric, when running around town and those that still work, to/from work. Although a small sample size, this is real data, which hardly indicates PHEV owners are ICE dominant.

 

BTW - we have incentive to use the battery, as our power rates are 9.5 c kWh (Canadian), which is about 7 c (US). Regular gas is about $5.50/ US gal, so we have lots of incentive to plug-in.

[Rangers09]

17 hours ago, Flying68 said:

PHEV's are a good solution for a lot of people. The problem is education of the owners. A secondary factor is most PHEV's have a rather small range on EV only, not really enough for a 2 way commute.

 

A PHEV wouldn't have worked for my commute, which was a minimum of 40 miles each way, but it works for the 3 PHEV owners locally that are still working. They use battery to/from work and plug-in every night.

[mackinaw]

1 hour ago, Rangers09 said:

 

As a PHEV owner, we plug-in daily while at home and when going under 50 miles use nothing but electricity, with our local power being > 98% renewable. Until our recent trip, our first month of PHEV ownership was 100% electric. Away from home and unable to charge, we were about 50/50 use of hybrid/electric, using the engine to charge the battery when low.

 

When away from home, the reason we don't plug-in is due to the lack of available public chargers and outlets at our condo. On our latest trip, we eventually found a charger on the street, but am not prepared to sit for hours while it charges. Even in retirement, my time is valuable, especially when the choice is sitting waiting for the car to charge or taking grandson to another activity.

 

You may not agree with PHEV's, but for our needs it is the perfect solution, until they develop technology that BEV's have equivalent range and filling as petrol/diesel vehicles. I'm clearly not 100% certain they will get close, so will be watching the implementation of hydrogen fuel cells in the marine environment and possible transition of that technology to vehicles.

 

We have discussed this extensively with neighbours, who have recently purchased vehicles based on their needs. At present, we have zero BEV's, as the limitations do not meet our needs, but we have 5 PHEV's, all from different manufacturers. All of us use 100% electric, when running around town and those that still work, to/from work. Although a small sample size, this is real data, which hardly indicates PHEV owners are ICE dominant.

 

BTW - we have incentive to use the battery, as our power rates are 9.5 c kWh (Canadian), which is about 7 c (US). Regular gas is about $5.50/ US gal, so we have lots of incentive to plug-in.

 

It's nice to read a post from somebody who actually has a PHEV.  What you wrote was very informative.  

[silvrsvt]

7 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

 

It's nice to read a post from somebody who actually has a PHEV.  What you wrote was very informative.  

 

But what he says doesn't really change the larger picture...yeah its great it works for him but at the same time IDGF about what people are doing in the next 12-24 months. EVs are the future and in 5 years or so most of the issues will be a moot point that people are bitching about now. Hell I bought an new ICE vehicle just over a year ago but I would have gotten a Hybrid if was available.

 

People are saying Ford should offer more PHEV options etc-but the problem they are missing is that boat has already sailed at this time. I'm sure there will be more products in the next few years that are already developed, but to keep working on a hybrid product that won't launch till the end of the decade or so is down right stupid at this point....and I think that is the disconnect people have or they just don't want to change or even examine the process..they just stick their fingers in their ears and go lalalaa. 

[Rangers09]

20 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

But what he says doesn't really change the larger picture...yeah its great it works for him but at the same time IDGF about what people are doing in the next 12-24 months. EVs are the future and in 5 years or so most of the issues will be a moot point that people are bitching about now. Hell I bought an new ICE vehicle just over a year ago but I would have gotten a Hybrid if was available.

 

People are saying Ford should offer more PHEV options etc-but the problem they are missing is that boat has already sailed at this time. I'm sure there will be more products in the next few years that are already developed, but to keep working on a hybrid product that won't launch till the end of the decade or so is down right stupid at this point....and I think that is the disconnect people have or they just don't want to change or even examine the process..they just stick their fingers in their ears and go lalalaa. 

 

I purchase vehicles based on what is available now, not what might be available in the future. What is available regarding technology and charging infrastructure in 3, 5, 7 yrs is completely irrelevant to purchasing a vehicle for our current needs. Most BEV proponents tend to focus on the future and how technology will evolve and the charging station network will expand. All great points, but irrelevant to making a decision on which vehicle to purchase today. 

 

Should we purchase a vehicle that doesn't meet our needs at present, just because the charging stations will improve in 3 yrs? Some might, but it won't be me.

 

I guess that PHEV boat has sailed to where we live, since our dealer is purchasing any PHEV he can find sitting on other dealer lots.

[Rick73]

42 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

 

It's nice to read a post from somebody who actually has a PHEV.  What you wrote was very informative.  

Agree hearing practical experience is great.  I prefer HEV versus PHEV for my personal vehicle because most driving is on longer highway trips, but would make one exception.  A PHEV van for camping and touring would be ideal for one of my vehicles.  The larger battery could provide “hotel electrical power” when parked, which would make van very convenient and also save a lot of time and money.  In my opinion it’s an opportunity Ford could capitalize on.

 

The new Ford Transit Custom PHEV sold in Europe would be a great vehicle for North American market.  The larger Transit could also be another great PHEV if it had similar capabilities which are not available with BEV version.

 

 

[Rangers09]

9 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

Agree hearing practical experience is great.  I prefer HEV versus PHEV for my personal vehicle because most driving is on longer highway trips, but would make one exception.  A PHEV van for camping and touring would be ideal for one of my vehicles.  The larger battery could provide “hotel electrical power” when parked, which would make van very convenient and also save a lot of time and money.  In my opinion it’s an opportunity Ford could capitalize on.

 

The new Ford Transit Custom PHEV sold in Europe would be a great vehicle for North American market.  The larger Transit could also be another great PHEV if it had similar capabilities which are not available with BEV version.

 

 

 

That is consistent with our experience.

 

When motorway driving, I used EV later as the preferred option, using only the engine. On the return trip, with the battery empty, the engine cut in and operated for about 35 miles, with most of it being motorway/highway driving. At that point, I changed it to EV Auto. Even in hybrid mode, it still does regenerative braking, so had returned sufficient energy to the battery, that at slow speed and close to home, the car returned to electric only.

 

I found the EV charge was most efficient at slower speeds.

[akirby]

3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

But what he says doesn't really change the larger picture...yeah its great it works for him but at the same time IDGF about what people are doing in the next 12-24 months. EVs are the future and in 5 years or so most of the issues will be a moot point that people are bitching about now. Hell I bought an new ICE vehicle just over a year ago but I would have gotten a Hybrid if was available.

 

People are saying Ford should offer more PHEV options etc-but the problem they are missing is that boat has already sailed at this time. I'm sure there will be more products in the next few years that are already developed, but to keep working on a hybrid product that won't launch till the end of the decade or so is down right stupid at this point....and I think that is the disconnect people have or they just don't want to change or even examine the process..they just stick their fingers in their ears and go lalalaa. 

This is the classic all or nothing scenario.  I see it all the time in IT.  Skip the intermediate solution because the end all be all solution is just around the corner.  Then the end all be all solution encounters technical or other issues and it ends up being delayed several years.  And now you’re stuck on the old technology (ICE) with none of the benefits you could have gotten from the intermediate solution (hybrids).  I’m literally living this as I’m trying to shutdown an old platform but one big tenant decided to go with the new gee whiz solution instead of the readily available intermediate solution and now they’re going to be 3-4 years late getting off the platform which is causing major problems.

[silvrsvt]

14 hours ago, akirby said:

This is the classic all or nothing scenario.  I see it all the time in IT.  Skip the intermediate solution because the end all be all solution is just around the corner.  Then the end all be all solution encounters technical or other issues and it ends up being delayed several years.  And now you’re stuck on the old technology (ICE) with none of the benefits you could have gotten from the intermediate solution (hybrids).  I’m literally living this as I’m trying to shutdown an old platform but one big tenant decided to go with the new gee whiz solution instead of the readily available intermediate solution and now they’re going to be 3-4 years late getting off the platform which is causing major problems.

 

But the point is Ford isn't doing this-Apparently there will be P/HEVs of the Bronco Sport, Bronco and Ranger coming in a few years. That would cover rest of the lineup that doesn't have the P/HEV option now. 

 

The point I was trying to make is starting a brand new Hybrid project at this point in 2023 is downright stupid since you wouldn't be able recoup the investment of maybe being able to sell it for only say 7 years before new car sales become EV only. 

 

Ford's current ICE lineup can carry them to the 2035 mark with some improvements, but Ford isn't going to spend billions on a new ICE project anytime soon. The vast majority of the EV projects are additional products to the line up (at least going by auto forecasts in North America) that will supplement ICE products that will stay into production till 2032-35, depending on how the market takes to EVs. 

 

We are basically saying the same thing....sigh. 

 

 

[T-dubz]

There’s also more competition for the mach e now then when it was introduced and even more right around the corner. Customers might be waiting to check out the competition. The same thing is happening with mid size trucks, so many good entries that customers are waiting to compare them to each other. Also the fact that mach e is gen 1 ev and gen 2 is supposedly so much better might be making people hold off.

 

in my area, I’ve only seen one mach e. I’ve seen more of the VW ev which is kinda sad because that thing is hideous.

 

I personally would consider an ev if the price was much lower, but even then I’m probably not a buyer until solid state batteries come out, and who knows when that will be.

[Rick73]

52 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

The point I was trying to make is starting a brand new Hybrid project at this point in 2023 is downright stupid since you wouldn't be able recoup the investment of maybe being able to sell it for only say 7 years before new car sales become EV only. 

Where did you get information that “car sales become EV only” in 7 years?  Do you have a source or is that only your opinion?

 

Even Ford CEO and others who know industry have made repeated statements lately that contradict your schedule for transition.  My “opinion” is that there is ZERO chance of that happening.

 

 

[silvrsvt]

4 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Where did you get information that “car sales become EV only” in 7 years?  Do you have a source or is that only your opinion?

 

Even Ford CEO and others who know industry have made repeated statements lately that contradict your schedule for transition.  My “opinion” is that there is ZERO chance of that happening.

 

 

 

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/04/electric-vehicles-could-make-up-66-percent-of-new-car-sales-by-2035-with-californias-lead/amp/

 

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/30/1166921698/eu-zero-emission-cars#:~:text=on March 23.-,Starting in 2035%2C all cars sold in the European,will be zero-emission vehicles.&text=European Union member states gave,starting in the year 2035.
 

Maybe if you actually read what I said-I said any new ICE development started at this very moment would be stupid because it wouldn’t see market till end of this decade-let’s use 5 years, that would put us out to 2028 or so and if the EU or US are planning on ICE bans or serious reductions in 2035, it would make no point in investing a large sum of money that you couldn’t recoup the money on, because it would be only on the market for seven years or so. 
 

Then add in the fact that if ICE sales start shrinking significantly, those older products will be phased out sooner then later.