bzcat Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Perhaps it's been mentioned already but I didn't see it... Santa Cruz has abysmal MPG - 21/26/23 with 2.5 I4 FWD. The turbo AWD is 17/27/22. https://www.autoblog.com/2021/06/07/2022-hyundai-santa-cruz-fuel-economy/ Maverick is crushing it on the MPG compare to Hyundai. Ford's decision to make the hybrid standard is such a game changing move. I can't emphasize that enough. It's going to force everyone to respond accordingly. Why is the $20k Corolla not a hybrid (it starts at $23k)? Why is the $20k Sentra not a hybrid (it's not even a thing)? BTW, Maverick makes that $20k EcoSport seem like a disaster. I know no one pays MSRP for EcoSport but it puts everything in perspective. Ignore the obvious size difference... just think about the engineering (drivetrain, tech etc) and capability difference. The limitation of a car that was engineered to sell in 3rd world countries vs. US market seems evident here. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, akirby said: Well now we know the new “affordable” vehicle. I thought the best way to help answer a lot of the questions was to use WBDO to produce a couple of samples. The Maverick XL FWD Hybrid is pretty impressive price-wise. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 14 minutes ago, bzcat said: Perhaps it's been mentioned already but I didn't see it... Santa Cruz has abysmal MPG - 21/26/23 with 2.5 I4 FWD. The turbo AWD is 17/27/22. https://www.autoblog.com/2021/06/07/2022-hyundai-santa-cruz-fuel-economy/ Maverick is crushing it on the MPG compare to Hyundai. Ford's decision to make the hybrid standard is such a game changing move. I can't emphasize that enough. It's going to force everyone to respond accordingly. Why is the $20k Corolla not a hybrid (it starts at $23k)? Why is the $20k Sentra not a hybrid (it's not even a thing)? BTW, Maverick makes that $20k EcoSport seem like a disaster. I know no one pays MSRP for EcoSport but it puts everything in perspective. Ignore the obvious size difference... just think about the engineering (drivetrain, tech etc) and capability difference. The limitation of a car that was engineered to sell in 3rd world countries vs. US market seems evident here. I agree...brilliant move by Ford. If I hadn't bought an Escape hybrid, I would be jumping on an XLT Maverick immediately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) 51 minutes ago, bzcat said: Perhaps it's been mentioned already but I didn't see it... Santa Cruz has abysmal MPG - 21/26/23 with 2.5 I4 FWD. The turbo AWD is 17/27/22. https://www.autoblog.com/2021/06/07/2022-hyundai-santa-cruz-fuel-economy/ Maverick is crushing it on the MPG compare to Hyundai. Ford's decision to make the hybrid standard is such a game changing move. I can't emphasize that enough. It's going to force everyone to respond accordingly. Why is the $20k Corolla not a hybrid (it starts at $23k)? Why is the $20k Sentra not a hybrid (it's not even a thing)? BTW, Maverick makes that $20k EcoSport seem like a disaster. I know no one pays MSRP for EcoSport but it puts everything in perspective. Ignore the obvious size difference... just think about the engineering (drivetrain, tech etc) and capability difference. The limitation of a car that was engineered to sell in 3rd world countries vs. US market seems evident here. Yeah but think of the profit attached to each Ecosport sale, it’s at best a $15K vehicle made in a cheaper cost center than Mexico. Maverick is brilliant and shows what a determined Ford can do, embarrassing the competition for sure, I hope they sell a million of them. In contrast, I think that the Santa Cruz will struggle to win buyers…. In regards to forcing change, Should Ford look to change Bronco Sport by adding FWD 2.5 hybrid as base powertrain? Should base power train in Escape be FWD 2.5 hybrid, is that more in line with buyer expectations? Now imagine the pricing of a C2 Transit Connect Van based off the the Maverick parts bin, it would cost a lot less than those currently being imported, maybe clean up big time…. Edited June 8, 2021 by jpd80 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 16 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Yeah but think of the profit attached to each Ecosport sale, it’s at best a $15K vehicle made in a cheaper cost center than Mexico. Maverick is brilliant and shows what a determined Ford can do, embarrassing the competition for sure, I hope they sell a million of them. In contrast, I think that the Santa Cruz will struggle to win buyers…. In regards to forcing change, Should Ford look to change Bronco Sport by adding FWD 2.5 hybrid as base powertrain? Should base power train in Escape be FWD 2.5 hybrid, is that more in line with buyer expectations? I think yes to the latter for sure....if not make Escape hybrid only across the board. I don't think it'd be crazy to make BS a standard hybrid either. It's in a segment where buyers will be ok with a hybrid powertrain (compared to its bigger brother, where buyers would likely complain about a standard hybrid powertrain, even if I personally would've gotten a hybrid were it available). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I think yes to the latter for sure....if not make Escape hybrid only across the board. I don't think it'd be crazy to make BS a standard hybrid either. It's in a segment where buyers will be ok with a hybrid powertrain (compared to its bigger brother, where buyers would likely complain about a standard hybrid powertrain, even if I personally would've gotten a hybrid were it available). and that’s the thing bzcat was saying, Maverick pioneers the low price hybrid, punching a hole in lots of existing ICEs. Many will now be forced to follow Maverick and sell low cost hybrids especially if Ford backs up with hybrid BS. I like the idea of Escape with a base hybrid as well, it’s a point of difference that might propel Escape sales and give RAV4 something to think about…. Edited June 8, 2021 by jpd80 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 51 minutes ago, bzcat said: Perhaps it's been mentioned already but I didn't see it... Santa Cruz has abysmal MPG - 21/26/23 with 2.5 I4 FWD. The turbo AWD is 17/27/22. https://www.autoblog.com/2021/06/07/2022-hyundai-santa-cruz-fuel-economy/ Maverick is crushing it on the MPG compare to Hyundai. Ford's decision to make the hybrid standard is such a game changing move. I can't emphasize that enough. It's going to force everyone to respond accordingly. Agreed that it shows that hybrid technology will be come increasingly common in most vehicles. I wonder if the Nissan Frontier is somewhat of a competitor to Maverick. The Frontier is still available as a 2 door (King Cab) and is smaller (205" total length) than Ranger/Tacoma/Colorado/Ridgeline. Of course, the Frontier's standard 300hp V6 makes it a pig for mpg at 18/24, and its $27K base price will probably comes with a lot of cash on the hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarneyFord Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 I’m drawn to the XL. Just like the back to basics steel wheels. It doesn’t appear that cruise is available on the XL. Maybe I’m missing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Pretty sure I found my next vehicle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 As much everyone is talking about the XL, I doubt they will account for more then 10% of sales or so because 1) very few people these days wants a bare bones vehicle. 2) dealers aren’t going to want order many of them when they know the higher trims will sell easier even though they cost more (especially in the first year when demand will be high) The real value winner is the XLT. For the same price as a basic economy sedan you can have a well-equipped 40 mpg crew cab pickup. What is the plant capacity? Do we know what the limit on how many of these things can be built per year? Because they are going to sell every last one. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 16 minutes ago, Anthony said: As much everyone is talking about the XL, I doubt they will account for more then 10% of sales or so because 1) very few people these days wants a bare bones vehicle. 2) dealers aren’t going to want order many of them when they know the higher trims will sell easier even though they cost more (especially in the first year when demand will be high) The real value winner is the XLT. For the same price as a basic economy sedan you can have a well-equipped 40 mpg crew cab pickup. What is the plant capacity? Do we know what the limit on how many of these things can be built per year? Because they are going to sell every last one. When the Fusion/MkZ were there, I remember it was around 350,000 at 3 shifts. Not sure if running three models that are all a bit different will reduce it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: The value in the Bronco (and to a lesser degree Bronco Sport) isn't the features, it's the capability engineered into it. To be honest what makes the Bronco family great off road is more to do with approach/departure angle and tires more than anything else. A similar equipped Ranger would be just as capable off road road short of those angle and you’d rip the crap out of the bumpers but a Escape with aggressive tires would do just as well as a BS short of a badlands. It’s just selling the image and Ford has done that masterfully. Yes that’s engineered but it’s not really not at the point that justifies the 10k-20k price over a Ranger or Escape. The Bronco name is going to be a cash cow for the next few years, along with the Ranger and possible other vehicles you’ll be working OT if you want it. The two biggest issues I see with the Maverick is that they can’t keep up with production early on; this is getting huge press. But even bigger is Ford makes this a high quality vehicle they will gain customers for life and bring people back into the Ford brand that haven’t driven one in years if ever coming from an import family. If It has a bunch of problems and those customers don’t come back, worse they will let everyone know on their social media accounts what a PoS their new vehicle is which is a problem on some accounts I follow with current Tesla owners. Letting 80k people know your car is trash and is in the shop again isn’t a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 16 minutes ago, jasonj80 said: To be honest what makes the Bronco family great off road is more to do with approach/departure angle and tires more than anything else. A similar equipped Ranger would be just as capable off road road short of those angle and you’d rip the crap out of the bumpers but a Escape with aggressive tires would do just as well as a BS short of a badlands. It’s just selling the image and Ford has done that masterfully. Yes that’s engineered but it’s not really not at the point that justifies the 10k-20k price over a Ranger or Escape. The Bronco name is going to be a cash cow for the next few years, along with the Ranger and possible other vehicles you’ll be working OT if you want it. The two biggest issues I see with the Maverick is that they can’t keep up with production early on; this is getting huge press. But even bigger is Ford makes this a high quality vehicle they will gain customers for life and bring people back into the Ford brand that haven’t driven one in years if ever coming from an import family. If It has a bunch of problems and those customers don’t come back, worse they will let everyone know on their social media accounts what a PoS their new vehicle is which is a problem on some accounts I follow with current Tesla owners. Letting 80k people know your car is trash and is in the shop again isn’t a good thing. It’s always risky to try new things but the key is to persist and lead from the front, I think that Ford has waited long enough to let hybrid technology mature that most problems are now covered, new battery tech excepted… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemke Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 11 hours ago, akirby said: Anyone else see the irony of calling these "Focus vehicles"? Yes….at first I thought the focus was returning from the grave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 52 minutes ago, jpd80 said: It’s always risky to try new things but the key is to persist and lead from the front, I think that Ford has waited long enough to let hybrid technology mature that most problems are now covered, new battery tech excepted… I’m actually less concerned about the battery tech and more concerned that they saved 6¢ on a hose or seal and there are stupid recall and reliability issues in a few years of ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, jasonj80 said: I’m actually less concerned about the battery tech and more concerned that they saved 6¢ on a hose or seal and there are stupid recall and reliability issues in a few years of ownership. And as we’ve seen in the past, a recall or two is not harmful provided that Ford deals with it properly and effectively, it can be a good opportunity for dealers to connect with buyers and maybe sell more products and services. Thinking that C2 is a heavy evolution of C1, the engineering is now mature and parts suppliers are now to the point where major foul ups should be rare to none. T6 is getting that way too. Edited June 9, 2021 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnm Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Any word on if the hybrid will be able to drive a few miles on EV mode only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, mnm said: Any word on if the hybrid will be able to drive a few miles on EV mode only? Most only offer about 15-20 miles, going off say the Fusion Hybrid. Not sure what the current Escape does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Oh comments on Social media about the Maverick and Ford: I love people bitching about a nameplate that hasn't been used in 44 years, then suggesting to use one that hasn't been used in 39 years instead (Courier) Somehow the Maverick is slowing down Bronco production since Ford only has like 5 engineers People not being able to grasp how the chip shortage affects some products and not others. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 13 hours ago, jpd80 said: Should Ford look to change Bronco Sport by adding FWD 2.5 hybrid as base powertrain? Should base power train in Escape be FWD 2.5 hybrid, is that more in line with buyer expectations? Yes sir jpd80, for sure. Compared to the 1.5L 3-cylinder that's the current base powertrain in Bronco Sport and Escape, the 2.5L hybrid is much better in every way. Consumer Reports tested 2 2020 Ford Escape SE vehicles. One 1.5L and the other 2.5L hybrid. The hybrid had a road test score 9 points higher. That's huge considering the only major difference between the 2 Escapes was the powertrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 14 hours ago, jpd80 said: In regards to forcing change, Should Ford look to change Bronco Sport by adding FWD 2.5 hybrid as base powertrain? If so, they would probably need to make the 2.0 ECO available in other trim models. The Bronco Sport has an off-road image and CVT’s don’t typically do well in off-road environments. I suppose they could continue to off the 1.5 ECO as a no cost option for those that want to go off-roading, but don’t want to pay for the 2.0. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 14 hours ago, jpd80 said: In regards to forcing change, Should Ford look to change Bronco Sport by adding FWD 2.5 hybrid as base powertrain? Should base power train in Escape be FWD 2.5 hybrid, is that more in line with buyer expectations? Now imagine the pricing of a C2 Transit Connect Van based off the the Maverick parts bin, it would cost a lot less than those currently being imported, maybe clean up big time…. I could see Ford giving TC an update and including an XL / Hybrid / FWD model for fleet sales. Better beef up that SK connection....Ford will need a lot more batteries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: Oh comments on Social media about the Maverick and Ford: I love people bitching about a nameplate that hasn't been used in 44 years, then suggesting to use one that hasn't been used in 39 years instead (Courier) Hasn't been used in North America that is....the name Courier is, however, used as a small van in the Transit/Tourneo range...aka, Transit/Tourneo Courier built on the Ford Global B chassis...built by Ford Otosan in Turkey for sale in the EU. Transit Courier, photo attribute: By Vauxford - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=75586092 Tourneo Courier, photo attribute: By Vauxford - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=94467088 Edited June 9, 2021 by twintornados 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddysystem Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Rear 3/4 view is my favorite view. Trying to get used to the headlight scheme... Struggling as I still am with the new F150 lights.. I do really like this vehicle though. Interior is great. Navy pier cloth on XLT is nice, even like the orange accents. Minor detail? No push button start? Just good old fashioned key? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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