Ford pauses Marshall Battery Plant

[Gurgeh]

2 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

I've yet to see a Lightning (not surprising) and have never seen a Mustang Mach-E on the road.  

I see them both all the time driving around the Maryland suburbs of Washington, DC. But then, this is a fairly big (and affluent with all those government, lobbyist, and "private" consulting jobs) EV place (see lots more Teslas than anything else) with lots of local charging locations.

[Rick73]

2 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

I've yet to see a Lightning (not surprising) and have never seen a Mustang Mach-E on the road.  

I occasionally see BEVs around where I live, mostly Teslas, but on long road trips BEVs are hard to spot.  On latest 2,000+ mile trip I saw one Tesla S on Interstate.  I was doing 75 MPH and he passed doing at least 85 MPH.  Probably wasn’t going too far if driving that fast.  From observation, I’d guess BEVs doing longer-distance highway trips are still relatively rare.

[Deanh]

1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

............And for the foreseable future (the big question-"foreseable" is 5yrs? 10  yrs?) hybrids make  the most sense???

 

 

CAFE stopgap...so yes...

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but you’re in a more affluent area too, right? That’s very telling if you are

Antidotal information doesn't carry much weight.

 

I'll use myself as an example-I haven't been out of the house much-been working remotely due to my building being closed for mold remediation. I go out a few times a week for errands etc.

 

I went to my place of work to pick up something at another building...my drive is about 15 miles one way today

 

I saw two other Broncos where I work

 

I saw a Mach E parked in front of someone's house (had to take a different way home)

 

Anyways,  I see a TON of Broncos, at least one two of them in my area when I drive-I also live near a touristy area too, so that helps. 

 

I see at least one or two Mach Es

 

See handful of Teslas everytime I go out

 

I didn't see my first 2024 Escape till a few weeks ago...and smaller CUVs are popular around here. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

Antidotal information doesn't carry much weight.

 

I'll use myself as an example-I haven't been out of the house much-been working remotely due to my building being closed for mold remediation. I go out a few times a week for errands etc.

 

I went to my place of work to pick up something at another building...my drive is about 15 miles one way today

 

I saw two other Broncos where I work

 

I saw a Mach E parked in front of someone's house (had to take a different way home)

 

Anyways,  I see a TON of Broncos, at least one two of them in my area when I drive-I also live near a touristy area too, so that helps. 

 

I see at least one or two Mach Es

 

See handful of Teslas everytime I go out

 

I didn't see my first 2024 Escape till a few weeks ago...and smaller CUVs are popular around here. 

More affluent buyers have been the earliest adopters of EVs. For him to not have seen any in a more affluent area is odd to say the least. 

[silvrsvt]

18 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

More affluent buyers have been the earliest adopters of EVs. For him to not have seen any in a more affluent area is odd to say the least. 

 

It is and it isn't....all depends. I've actually seen more Rivians on the road then I've seen Lightnings in my area. 

[rmc523]

4 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

I've yet to see a Lightning (not surprising) and have never seen a Mustang Mach-E on the road.  

 

29 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

More affluent buyers have been the earliest adopters of EVs. For him to not have seen any in a more affluent area is odd to say the least. 

 

I know for me (South Florida area), Teslas are everywhere (so are all sorts of exotics).  Mach Es are fairly common, though not nearly as numerous as Teslas, obviously.  A lot of Broncos are popping up too.  Rivians are pretty common now as well.  Lightnings I have still only seen a 10-15 locally that I can recall off the top of my head - sightings are increasing, but slowly.....and for reference, trucks are everywhere too, so it's not as if it's a no-truck area.

[Captainp4]

40 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

It is and it isn't....all depends. I've actually seen more Rivians on the road then I've seen Lightnings in my area. 

Same here, I've seen 2 Rivians, pretty decent numbers of Mach-E's.. haven't seen a Lightning yet. Very possible it just blends in with all the other F150s and there are some around, but not a substantial enough change to catch my eye.

[akirby]

4 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

I've yet to see a Lightning (not surprising) and have never seen a Mustang Mach-E on the road.  

I’m on the very fringe of the Atlanta metro area, 20 miles from the more affluent area.  I’ve seen 4 or 5 Lightnings, 3 Rivians and 6 or 8 Mach-Es.  Tons of Teslas (several per day).  Lots of Kia/Hyundais.

[paintguy]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

I’m on the very fringe of the Atlanta metro area, 20 miles from the more affluent area.  I’ve seen 4 or 5 Lightnings, 3 Rivians and 6 or 8 Mach-Es.  Tons of Teslas (several per day).  Lots of Kia/Hyundais.

I'm in  the South Suburbs of Chicago. Not an upscale area, but is as opposed to South Side Chicago. Many Ford Employees in the area (Chicago Stamping 5 miles away, less than 20 miles to Chicago Assembly). See several Mustang MachE daily. Only see one F150 Lightning. Several neighbors with Tesla 3, Y, S, and X. Rivians seem to have a good showing. About half the Amazon trucks in the neighborhood are Rivians. Odd looking but distinctive van.  Rivian located in Illinois. Know a few Ford employees who left for Rivian. Might explain some of my sightings. 

[mackinaw]

Rural northern Michigan.  We're on I-75, so see a fair amount of Tesla's stopping to juice up at our Supercharger.  Maybe have seen two or three Rivian's this year.  I've seen several Lightnings, but not many Mach-E's.  Bronco's are very popular. 

 

Addendum:  After Tesla, the most common BEV I've seen has been the Lightning.  I'm about 225 miles from Dearborn, which may be part of the reason.

Edited September 26, 2023 by mackinaw

[ice-capades]

6 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but you’re in a more affluent area too, right? That’s very telling if you are

 

Greater New Haven in CT... State income tax, highest property taxes in CT (Hamden, CT), Yale University, University of New Haven, Albertus Magnus College, Quinnipiac University, Southern CT State University, Amazon distribution center (North Haven), etc.

 

I've seen maybe 4-6 Bronco Sports but only 1-2 Broncos on the road in the area.  

Edited September 26, 2023 by ice-capades
Additional Content

[Andrew L]

2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

 

I know for me (South Florida area), Teslas are everywhere (so are all sorts of exotics).  Mach Es are fairly common, though not nearly as numerous as Teslas, obviously.  A lot of Broncos are popping up too.  Rivians are pretty common now as well.  Lightnings I have still only seen a 10-15 locally that I can recall off the top of my head - sightings are increasing, but slowly.....and for reference, trucks are everywhere too, so it's not as if it's a no-truck area.

 

Same for me in the Tampa area tho I haven't seen any Lightnings yet.  Lots of Teslas in my neighborhood and someone in my neighborhood has a Rivian pickup. I have seen a few on the highway around me and I saw 1 Rivian SUV on the highway as well.  I also saw a dark brownish Lucid Air drive by, it has some serious presence in person.

[atomcat68]

7 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

I've yet to see a Lightning (not surprising) and have never seen a Mustang Mach-E on the road.  

In the Boston area, I see more Mach E Mustangs, more often than I see new regular Mustangs. The Lightning looks so much like a regular pickup that it takes me a few seconds to realize it is a lightning, so you may have seen them and didn't know it.

[Bob Rosadini]

9 hours ago, Deanh said:

CAFE stopgap...so yes...

Agree ..as I've said many times..electrification makes sense..but at a measure pace .  But for sure not at the politically driven pace that shows no concern for what the majority wants or can afford.

[twintornados]

1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Agree ..as I've said many times..electrification makes sense..but at a measure pace .  But for sure not at the politically driven pace that shows no concern for what the majority wants or can afford.

 

Market forces will dictate the success of the EV market.

[rperez817]

Earlier today, Michigan Economic Development Corporation approved $65 million in additional improvements to the Marshall megasite. Michigan board approves $65 million for Marshall site 1 day after Ford pause (yahoo.com)

 

A Michigan board awarded $65 million on Tuesday for site improvements at a Marshall-area development intended for a massive Ford plant, one day after the automaker announced it would pause work on the touted and scrutinized project.

The money is one of several signs state officials anticipate Ford will resume work at the site soon, potentially once the Dearborn-based company reaches a labor agreement with the UAW.

 

[AM222]

18 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

More affluent buyers have been the earliest adopters of EVs. For him to not have seen any in a more affluent area is odd to say the least. 

Those people who live in apartments or outside big cities will probably be the last to switch. 

[Gurgeh]

39 minutes ago, AM222 said:

Those people who live in apartments or outside big cities will probably be the last to switch. 

It is ironic that the folks who are trying to push us out of single family homes into high-density living are the same folks trying to push us out of ICE-based vehicles into fully electric vehicles.

[silvrsvt]

11 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

Market forces will dictate the success of the EV market.

 

That is going to be hard to when makers have to meet CAFE

[rperez817]

Good article from Wall Street Journal today comparing the stance of Ford versus GM regarding tax credits for BEV that use battery components from any source that the U.S. deems a “foreign entity of concern”. This directly impacts Ford's Marshall, Michigan battery plant.  This Ford vs. GM Feud Could Shape the Future of EVs in America (msn.com)

 

Ford, with its plans to license Chinese technology to make cheaper, iron-based batteries in Michigan, has lobbied for a more flexible interpretation of the “foreign entity” rule. If its planned batteries aren’t eligible for the car-buyer subsidy, Ford executives have indicated they could scale back the investment; on Monday, the company paused construction of the new battery plant. 

“It would be absurd to classify Ford or its fully owned subsidiary as a foreign entity, much less one of concern. We’re Ford, and we’re all-in on America,” Chris Smith, Ford’s chief government affairs officer, said. 

GM isn’t planning investments with Chinese battery firms—and could see Ford gain a critical technological and cost advantage in the EV race if its deal goes forward. GM executives and lobbyists have called for a strict “foreign entity of concern” rule that would prevent such licensing arrangements.

“This is not about GM vs. Ford,” a GM spokeswoman said. She said GM wants clarity and for the rules to follow the intent of the Inflation Reduction Act, which created the new tax-credit requirements.

[Deanh]

9 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

That is going to be hard to when makers have to meet CAFE

mytake...hydrogens coming......there WILL be alternatives to BEVs...and it wouldnt surprize me if the CAFE handcuffs at some time are relaxed somewhat....

Edited September 27, 2023 by Deanh

[silvrsvt]

10 minutes ago, Deanh said:

mytake...hydrogens coming......there WILL be alternatives to BEVs...and it wouldnt surprize me if the CAFE handcuffs at some time are relaxed somewhat....

 

No it isn't

 

 

[rperez817]

29 minutes ago, Deanh said:

hydrogens coming.

 

23 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

No it isn't

 

Good to revisit the very helpful explanation @bzcat provided a couple years ago on the viability of hydrogen.

 

  

 

[paintguy]

11 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

It is ironic that the folks who are trying to push us out of single family homes into high-density living are the same folks trying to push us out of ICE-based vehicles into fully electric vehicles.

They want you to eat crickets too... Have a cicada brood coming next year. Be eatin' good in the neighborhood while waiting to charge my electric car.