The Ford Mustang Mach-E Handily Outsold The Gas Mustang In 2024

[jpd80]

Clearly, the auto market is going through a correction at the moment - some would say a reckoning.

All the long term plans from a few years ago go out the window as lots of 0% 72 months financing

and cash incentives come back. This time though, companies like Ford, GM and Ram Jeep have 

a lot of fat on those high dollar trims in inventory - guaranteed that every single vehicle will be sold.

 

You can bet that North American carmakers will be lobbying the new administration about loosening 

regulations for high volume, high profit vehicles like full size pickups, SUVs and utilities. The first point

of business has to be keeping those cash cows selling while evolution to electrified vehicles proceeds.

[Deanh]

23 hours ago, sullynd said:

Do you no longer sell Fords? The Mach-E has not been eligible for the Federal credit for some time. 
 

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax2023.shtml

the 7500 went awayu but was there initially at least to boost sales...now its gone Ford has countered that with an $8750 rebate and a skimpy 0.05 lease rate ( lease IMO is the ONLY option on the car ).....or 3500 with 0 percent on a purchase ( DONT do it )....the good old ICE has a lousy lease and 5.9 for 60.....kinda underlines that the E require incentives to move.....

Edited January 10 by Deanh

[jpd80]

13 minutes ago, Deanh said:

the 7500 went awayu but was there initially at least to boost sales...now its gone Ford has countered that with an $8750 rebate and a skimpy 0.05 lease rate ( lease IMO is the ONLY option on the car ).....or 3500 with 0 percent on a purchase ( DONT do it )....the good old ICE has a lousy lease and 5.9 for 60.....kinda underlines that the E require incentives to move.....

LOL, $8,750 Ford rebate on Mach E…..and people wonder why Mustang Coupe struggled last month.

[Harley Lover]

Dean, based on your experience, would you say that Mustang and Mach E buyers are 2 distinct groups, versus a 'single' group deciding between the 2 vehicles? <That would be my expectation, but it's simply anecdotal as I have no way to confirm my opinion.

 

If we were to stipulate that the 2 groups of buyers are distinct, then the relative sales incentives between the 2 become less important because those 2 groups aren't cross shopping those 2 cars. Perhaps the MME buyers cross shopped a Tesla or some other EV instead? And I'm not sure what the Mustang buyers would cross shop - to me, it's a stand alone product at this point. Maybe a Challenger?

[akirby]

I don’t think they’re cross shopped at all and the sales statistics are just an interesting anecdote that means very little.

[Harley Lover]

55 minutes ago, akirby said:

I don’t think they’re cross shopped at all and the sales statistics are just an interesting anecdote that means very little.

 

That's my point, but trying to make it succinctly.

[Stray Kat]

I think you guys are missing something (respectfully of course) 

 

First of all Ford has to be careful not to “over Mustang” us. With no other cars to speak of besides the Mach E they run the risk of burning the brand out. 
 

Sidebar: I personally think a Crown Vic needs to reemerge possibly even built on an F150 chassis if necessary. But I digress. 
 

Screw chasing the Corvette. GM will always have to win the numbers game in performance figures. They will spend themselves back into bankruptcy to do it too. 
 

No someone please come to their senses. The Mustang should be no larger than a Mazda Miata. Weigh no more than 3500 pounds and cost no more than 50K at the very most. 
 

Put in a 2.3 EB as a base engine and the GT should get a “Nano” version of the Coyote with shorter decks to reduce overall physical size and give us a fifth gen cylinder head that’s focused on packaging as much as possible. 
 

All you need is 375 horsepower and a six speed. 
 

Now on the inside you make the car a jewel. Even on the base car you pull from the bag of tricks like they did on the Maverick. Clean, crisp simple. 
 

Outside you use the ‘65 for inspiration. 
 

 

Make the Mustang great again. Capture the magic it once held. Screw all this preoccupation with winning pissing contests. Make a pure “pony car” and win the sales race. 

[jpd80]

20 minutes ago, Stray Kat said:

I think you guys are missing something (respectfully of course) 

 

First of all Ford has to be careful not to “over Mustang” us. With no other cars to speak of besides the Mach E they run the risk of burning the brand out. 
 

Sidebar: I personally think a Crown Vic needs to reemerge possibly even built on an F150 chassis if necessary. But I digress. 
 

Screw chasing the Corvette. GM will always have to win the numbers game in performance figures. They will spend themselves back into bankruptcy to do it too. 
 

No someone please come to their senses. The Mustang should be no larger than a Mazda Miata. Weigh no more than 3500 pounds and cost no more than 50K at the very most. 
 

Put in a 2.3 EB as a base engine and the GT should get a “Nano” version of the Coyote with shorter decks to reduce overall physical size and give us a fifth gen cylinder head that’s focused on packaging as much as possible. 
 

All you need is 375 horsepower and a six speed. 
 

Now on the inside you make the car a jewel. Even on the base car you pull from the bag of tricks like they did on the Maverick. Clean, crisp simple. 
 

Outside you use the ‘65 for inspiration. 
 

 

Make the Mustang great again. Capture the magic it once held. Screw all this preoccupation with winning pissing contests. Make a pure “pony car” and win the sales race. 

Unfortunately, there is no money and no desire  to make an all new Mustang Coupe.

The cost of an all new Mustang Coupe is prohibitive especially with sales continuing 

their downward trend..

 

 If Ford put the coupe on a smaller vehicle size, the CAFE requirements for a V8 vehicle become intolerable….that’s why they made the cars footprint bigger. A better use of funds would be a BEV car to offset Mustang’s CAFE numbers, that way it makes profits on both vehicles.

 

I would love to see the vehicle you envision but realistically, I know that Ford has set S650 to the Mustang’s conclusion, whenever that is.

Edited January 11 by jpd80

[akirby]

Miata is a two seater and way too small for Mustang.   Back seat for kids or groceries and decent interior room are big selling points.

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Unfortunately, there is no money and no desire  to make an all new Mustang Coupe.

The cost of an all new Mustang Coupe is prohibitive especially with sales continuing 

their downward trend..

 

 If Ford put the coupe on a smaller vehicle size, the CAFE requirements for a V8 vehicle become intolerable….that’s why they made the cars footprint bigger. A better use of funds would be a BEV car to offset Mustang’s CAFE numbers, that way it makes profits on both vehicles.

 

I would love to see the vehicle you envision but realistically, I know that Ford has set S650 to the Mustang’s conclusion, whenever that is.

Wait, are you trying to say the s650 will be the last mustang coupe? A small ICE coupe, especially a V8, isn't feasible with CAFE standards. But something based on CE1 seems like it could go back to the mustang's roots, small, affordable, etc.

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, Stray Kat said:

I think you guys are missing something (respectfully of course) 

 

First of all Ford has to be careful not to “over Mustang” us. With no other cars to speak of besides the Mach E they run the risk of burning the brand out. 
 

Sidebar: I personally think a Crown Vic needs to reemerge possibly even built on an F150 chassis if necessary. But I digress. 
 

Screw chasing the Corvette. GM will always have to win the numbers game in performance figures. They will spend themselves back into bankruptcy to do it too. 
 

No someone please come to their senses. The Mustang should be no larger than a Mazda Miata. Weigh no more than 3500 pounds and cost no more than 50K at the very most. 
 

Put in a 2.3 EB as a base engine and the GT should get a “Nano” version of the Coyote with shorter decks to reduce overall physical size and give us a fifth gen cylinder head that’s focused on packaging as much as possible. 
 

All you need is 375 horsepower and a six speed. 
 

Now on the inside you make the car a jewel. Even on the base car you pull from the bag of tricks like they did on the Maverick. Clean, crisp simple. 
 

Outside you use the ‘65 for inspiration. 
 

 

Make the Mustang great again. Capture the magic it once held. Screw all this preoccupation with winning pissing contests. Make a pure “pony car” and win the sales race. 

Huh?  Mustang has never been that form factor

[jpd80]

37 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Wait, are you trying to say the s650 will be the last mustang coupe? A small ICE coupe, especially a V8, isn't feasible with CAFE standards. But something based on CE1 seems like it could go back to the mustang's roots, small, affordable, etc.

Let me unpack that.

S650 is an evolved version of S550, meaning it’s not all new. The reason that was done is because the cost of an all new Mustang could not be justified. Ford is happy

to keep the Iconic Mustang coupe around as long as enough people keep buying it.

Once $11 billion in funding was redirected away from Ford Blue ICE platforms, it was

pretty clear that no new ICE platforms were planned (especially for cars like Mustang).

 

Regarding CAFE, sorry of this is tiresome…

As you decrease the footprint (track X wheelbase) of a car, the CAFE fuel economy targets number rise quickly, this is why Ford chose not to keep Fiesta and Focus around in the US, the costs to keep them ahead of CAFE were not seen as justifiable.

So making a V8 Mustang on a smaller lighter platform is counter intuitive, as is making it only 375 hp

 

 EV Car?

I suggested that as being a more practicable use of funding rather than an all new Mustang

and as a car, a BEV would help offset any of Mustang’s future CAFE shortcomings.

 

Guys,

I would love to think that Ford is in a position of some golden age where it will revert

to building select iconic vehicles that are offset by new era BEVs but the reality is that

Ford is not thinking that way, no matter what CGI sketches were floated to dealerships,

I think that was all Farley circling the airport while he works out what on earth Ford’s

plans are going to be negotiating the current sales issues. Ford still needs to keep

those profits coming to fund it future plans.

Edited January 12 by jpd80

[mackinaw]

I really haven't followed this thread, but maybe this audio clip from Bill Ford can offer some clarity to this discussion.

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/videos/media/video/2025/01/09/william-clay-ford-jr-talks-about-the-legacy-of-the-mustang/77588338007/

[DeluxeStang]

10 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Let me unpack that.

S650 is an evolved version of S550, meaning it’s not all new. The reason that was done is because the cost of an all new Mustang could not be justified. Ford is happy

to keep the Iconic Mustang coupe around as long as enough people keep buying it.

Once $11 billion in funding was redirected away from Ford Blue ICE platforms, it was

pretty clear that no new ICE platforms were planned (especially for cars like Mustang).

 

Regarding CAFE, sorry of this is tiresome…

As you decrease the footprint (track X wheelbase) of a car, the CAFE fuel economy targets number rise quickly, this is why Ford chose not to keep Fiesta and Focus around in the US, the costs to keep them ahead of CAFE were not seen as justifiable.

So making a V8 Mustang on a smaller lighter platform is counter intuitive, as is making it only 375 hp

 

 EV Car?

I suggested that as being a more practicable use of funding rather than an all new Mustang

and as a car, a BEV would help offset any of Mustang’s future CAFE shortcomings.

 

Guys,

I would love to think that Ford is in a position of some golden age where it will revert

to building select iconic vehicles that are offset by new era BEVs but the reality is that

Ford is not thinking that way, no matter what CGI sketches were floated to dealerships,

I think that was all Farley circling the airport while he works out what on earth Ford’s

plans are going to be negotiating the current sales issues. Ford still needs to keep

those profits coming to fund it future plans.

Makes perfect sense. But I have to wonder, the decision to cut back on ICE platforms and funding was made back when we thought EVs were going to be more successful, it seems like Ford, and other brands, are walking that back. With it looking like ICE will live on longer, especially for Ford's iconic products, I wonder if that has made it easier to justify a new platform in the future, just because so much has changed over the last few years. 

 

If the mustang does go EV only, I think one of the best ways to win consumers over would be to give them multiple mustang body styles which all used the same basic architecture. Think offering a coupe, a sedan, a mid-engine shape, etc, because with ev skateboard platforms, you can do that, you don't really have the same packaging challenges. So that could help "make up" for losing the V8. Saying yeah, it's not ideal, but to make up for it, we're gonna give you all the body styles you dreamed of to help you look past the idea of mustang becoming EV only. 

[atomcat68]

16 hours ago, mackinaw said:

I really haven't followed this thread, but maybe this audio clip from Bill Ford can offer some clarity to this discussion.

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/videos/media/video/2025/01/09/william-clay-ford-jr-talks-about-the-legacy-of-the-mustang/77588338007/

He said as long as he's at Ford, there will be a Mustang, but executives do retire and will his replacement share his views?

 

He also asked the question if the Mach E is a real Mustang and his answer was the people who drove it gave him a resounding "yes". So that shows his willingness to offer the Mustang nameplate on a product that is different from what we've come to expect and like it or not, Ford will be open minded to a change in the car's format.

[mackinaw]

10 minutes ago, atomcat68 said:

He said as long as he's at Ford, there will be a Mustang, but executives do retire and will his replacement share his views?...

 

Bill Ford is 67 and will retire from the Board of Directors someday, but two other members of the Board are from the Ford family, his daughter and his nephew.  I suspect they share the same views as their father/uncle.

[GearheadGrrrl]

The question no one is asking is "Why are millions suffering with big pickups and SUVs when they could be enjoying sports cars that cost less?"

[Rick73]

15 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

The question no one is asking is "Why are millions suffering with big pickups and SUVs when they could be enjoying sports cars that cost less?"

Not asking because the primary reason is or should be obvious.  People certainly like extra space, but even when they don’t need it and would enjoy owning and driving a smaller vehicle more, they won’t for fear of getting themselves or their family injured or worse.  Safety, whether people admit it or not, plays a huge role in what we drive. Safety ratings aside, we know or perceive there is no substitute for added size and mass.

[DeluxeStang]

18 hours ago, mackinaw said:

I really haven't followed this thread, but maybe this audio clip from Bill Ford can offer some clarity to this discussion.

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/videos/media/video/2025/01/09/william-clay-ford-jr-talks-about-the-legacy-of-the-mustang/77588338007/

See, the confusing thing is he and Farley are talking about how the greatest days of mustang are ahead, how they're investing a ton of money into it to expand and strengthen the brand, going all out. Then you have insiders on this site who are saying the mustang will stay around, but rely on the cheapest, most cost effective principles to do so, keeping investment in it to a minimum due to low demand. 

 

I think part of it could be people like JPD and other insiders actually tell us like it is, whereas executives are constantly trying to spin things to hype products up, that is part of their job after all. The other solution, and it's less likely, but more optimistic, is that Ford has created a roadmap of exciting mustang models that executives have seen, but that a lot of other people within Ford haven't seen thus far. 

[jpd80]

8 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

See, the confusing thing is he and Farley are talking about how the greatest days of mustang are ahead, how they're investing a ton of money into it to expand and strengthen the brand, going all out. Then you have insiders on this site who are saying the mustang will stay around, but rely on the cheapest, most cost effective principles to do so, keeping investment in it to a minimum due to low demand. 

 

I think part of it could be people like JPD and other insiders actually tell us like it is, whereas executives are constantly trying to spin things to hype products up, that is part of their job after all. The other solution, and it's less likely, but more optimistic, is that Ford has created a roadmap of exciting mustang models that executives have seen, but that a lot of other people within Ford haven't seen thus far. 

Two things can be true at the same time.

It is clear that Ford wants to leverage the Mustang brand for new vehicles, probably BEVs but also it has a commitment to keep the ICE Mustang coupe going for as long as those buyers keep supporting it.

Edited January 12 by jpd80

[Sherminator98]

1 hour ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

The question no one is asking is "Why are millions suffering with big pickups and SUVs when they could be enjoying sports cars that cost less?"

Because sports cars are completely impractical for 90% of the car buying public? 
 

Remember the vast majority of buyers look at a car as an appliance and what they can get out of it (real or perceived) vs how much they need pay for it. 
 

CUV/truck are high on this because they offer room and safety in buyers minds. Having the ability to picking up a washing machine or something without needing a delivery truck is really appealing to many people. 
 

But then again most people on here confuse what they want vs what actually sells too all the time too. 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

The question no one is asking is "Why are millions suffering with big pickups and SUVs when they could be enjoying sports cars that cost less?"

We’re not suffering we’re perfectly happy.  And really good sports cars are not cheaper.

[morgan20]

41 minutes ago, akirby said:

We’re not suffering we’re perfectly happy.

 

Yea, exactly. Big pickup trucks and SUVs have some of the highest owner satisfaction and loyalty rates in the industry. In fact, big pickup trucks from Ford have the highest owner loyalty of 'em all. Higher than anything from Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Porsche, Benz, Lexus, or BMW

 

 

 

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Two things can be true at the same time.

It is clear that Ford wants to leverage the Mustang brand for new vehicles, probably BEVs but also it has a commitment to keep the ICE Mustang coupe going for as long as those buyers keep supporting it.

Which makes sense, but it makes Farley's comments on how they would never make an all electric mustang coupe rather head scratching. I personally believe that decision will be reversed in the future, it has to be. 

[pictor]

23 hours ago, Stray Kat said:

I think you guys are missing something (respectfully of course) 

 

First of all Ford has to be careful not to “over Mustang” us. With no other cars to speak of besides the Mach E they run the risk of burning the brand out. 
 

Sidebar: I personally think a Crown Vic needs to reemerge possibly even built on an F150 chassis if necessary. But I digress. 
 

Screw chasing the Corvette. GM will always have to win the numbers game in performance figures. They will spend themselves back into bankruptcy to do it too. 
 

No someone please come to their senses. The Mustang should be no larger than a Mazda Miata. Weigh no more than 3500 pounds and cost no more than 50K at the very most. 
 

Put in a 2.3 EB as a base engine and the GT should get a “Nano” version of the Coyote with shorter decks to reduce overall physical size and give us a fifth gen cylinder head that’s focused on packaging as much as possible. 
 

All you need is 375 horsepower and a six speed. 
 

Now on the inside you make the car a jewel. Even on the base car you pull from the bag of tricks like they did on the Maverick. Clean, crisp simple. 
 

Outside you use the ‘65 for inspiration. 
 

 

Make the Mustang great again. Capture the magic it once held. Screw all this preoccupation with winning pissing contests. Make a pure “pony car” and win the sales race. 

Sales races with who, no Camaro, no dodge ,  it is a shrinking segment.  If the can’t win sales race in segment with competitors, it might be time to go away.  All the Ford dealers I see around here have tons of trucks and CUVs.  I see more hot hatches around here then mustangs