Ford Mustang Mach E World Premiere Nov 17 9PM EST

[ice-capades]

19 hours ago, 02MustangGT said:

Thanks for the update.  Why wouldn’t Ford invest resources to sell product?   Isn’t that your job as well?   Selling product for Ford but yet degrading the company for attempting to market a new vehicle?  Nice work.  

 

Sorry but you missed the point. Ford and its dealers function completely as sales operations but if Ford was hitting its reservations targets for the Mach-E they wouldn't have their Zone Managers out on the road at dealerships. Dealers can't do anything other than use Ford's reservation process for the Mach-E as there is no Mach-E Order Guide, Price List or WBDO (Web Based Dealer Order) availability for the vehicle. 

[MadManMoon]

Well, I held out for six whole days, telling myself my 2016 Fiesta ST was just fine (and under warranty until August 2024).  Reserved my Carbonized Gray First Edition Mach-E this afternoon.  Now I have a few months to convince myself to go through with it!

[Assimilator]

Now is a good time to point out that if you want a Mach E in the first year, the US allotment is almost spoken for.  Turns out more than half of the Mach E's 50K volume is going to the EU because of the regulatory environment there. 

[Gurgeh]

13 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

Now is a good time to point out that if you want a Mach E in the first year, the US allotment is almost spoken for.  Turns out more than half of the Mach E's 50K volume is going to the EU because of the regulatory environment there. 

 

...and by sometime in 2021 Ford will likely lose its eligibility for the $7,500 tax credit. 

[Assimilator]

I think the big hangup for me might be leasing.  Ford doesn't say there will be leasing available, only that there will be an option for those people who want a shorter term with the vehicle.   I would not be surprised if leasing is not an option which would likely mean I go get a Model Y instead.  I think the important thing to keep in mind is that Ford is very capacity constrained because of batteries which means they won't be challenging Tesla volume for years to come.  Ford still has a really long road to hoe on EVs, it's going to remain a very tiny business for awhile.  

Edited November 24, 2019 by Assimilator

[snooter]

...part of the issues with the batteries be they tesla or other is the Cobalt...the other inherent problem is lithium likes to blow up when conditions are met...

[02MustangGT]

3 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

Sorry but you missed the point. Ford and its dealers function completely as sales operations but if Ford was hitting its reservations targets for the Mach-E they wouldn't have their Zone Managers out on the road at dealerships. Dealers can't do anything other than use Ford's reservation process for the Mach-E as there is no Mach-E Order Guide, Price List or WBDO (Web Based Dealer Order) availability for the vehicle. 

No I totally get your point.  Like I already mentioned, why wouldn’t Ford invest resources to market a vehicle?  You seem to think it’s because they have not met their reservation targets.  When in fact, Ford could be attempting to build relationships with dealers such as yours to gain traction on a very important vehicle.  Why don’t you provide some real details on what the Zone Manager is actually communicating while he/she is “out on the road”?  

[T-dubz]

1 hour ago, snooter said:

...part of the issues with the batteries be they tesla or other is the Cobalt...the other inherent problem is lithium likes to blow up when conditions are met...

solid state  batteries are right around the corner (relatively speaking). They should be safer, cheaper and have more storage capacity. Toyota will supposedly display a vehicle with a solid state battery at the Tokyo olympics in 2020. Hopefully they will be common place in electric vehicles by 2030.

[CurtisH]

20 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

solid state  batteries are right around the corner (relatively speaking). They should be safer, cheaper and have more storage capacity. Toyota will supposedly display a vehicle with a solid state battery at the Tokyo olympics in 2020. Hopefully they will be common place in electric vehicles by 2030.

I don’t consider 2030 to be right around the corner.  However, that’s about the time I will probably be replacing my Mustang.  Kept my 2005 Mustang 13 years.  May only keep this one 12 years.  

[snooter]

2 hours ago, T-dubz said:

solid state  batteries are right around the corner (relatively speaking). They should be safer, cheaper and have more storage capacity. Toyota will supposedly display a vehicle with a solid state battery at the Tokyo olympics in 2020. Hopefully they will be common place in electric vehicles by 

Solid state does have potential as a game changer...but its always "MIT has the problem solved and will anounce next week"...of course that never happens...i am still betting the best chance for any new Bat tech comes from musk and his space x crew....

[J-150]

10 hours ago, snooter said:

...part of the issues with the batteries be they tesla or other is the Cobalt...the other inherent problem is lithium likes to blow up when conditions are met...

So does gasoline

[T-dubz]

https://insideevs.com/news/384086/elon-musk-146000-cybertruck-orders/

 

supposedly 146k reservations for the cybertruck

[jasonj80]

28 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

https://insideevs.com/news/384086/elon-musk-146000-cybertruck-orders/

 

supposedly 146k reservations for the cybertruck

Wonder how many will keep it when the final design comes out that actually can meet Bumper, crash, pedestrian, and lighting requirements.  

[Captainp4]

Out of curiosity, what is the battery life and replacement cost like on these newer hev/phev/bev? I remember when they were first coming out the replacement cost long term was usually more than the vehicle was worth.

 

 

[Gurgeh]

1 hour ago, T-dubz said:

https://insideevs.com/news/384086/elon-musk-146000-cybertruck-orders/

 

supposedly 146k reservations for the cybertruck

 

As I mentioned in the thread on this under Competing Products,  I expect a lot of that will end up being refunded (the Cybertruck deposit being $100 vs. the $1,000 required for the Model 3). But until then, Tesla gets a nice interest-free infusion of $146 million -- and for a vehicle still two years away from release.

 

What I just don't get is how it is technically and financially possible to produce as a $39,000 entry-level vehicle topping out at less than $70,000 for a 500-mile range, 0-60 in less than 3 seconds, with a tow rating of 14,000 lbs, all from an incredibly heavy vehicle with its body built with a (literally) rocket ship alloy of bullet-proof stainless steel. I don't see how this is doable or able to turn a profit, but defer to those who are more technically adept than I am.

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by Gurgeh

[SoonerLS]

2 hours ago, J-150 said:

So does gasoline

Yeah, but you can extinguish a gasoline fire.

 

The bigger safety problem with Li-ion batteries isn't that they explode, it that if one catches fire, all you can do is let it burn and try to keep it from catching the stuff around it on fire. Seriously--you can't even spray water directly on the burning battery, as it will hydrolyze the water, leaving you with hydrogen gas in the presence of a flame.

 

That said, it's a very rare occurrence in automotive batteries because the manufacturers are aware of the issue and take measures to mitigate it. There have probably been others, but the only automotive Li-ion battery fire of which I'm aware happened when the car hit some rebar (IIRC) hard enough to penetrate that protective shell around the battery.

[snooter]

1 hour ago, Captainp4 said:

Out of curiosity, what is the battery life and replacement cost like on these newer hev/phev/bev? I remember when they were first coming out the replacement cost long term was usually more than the vehicle was worth.

 

 

Tesla is 8 year warranty??....battery is significant amount of the total cost for tesla..out of warranty battery replacement is $5k to 7k last i looked into it on a tesla......the rub here is everybody wants away from the cobalt...problem is as you reduce the cobalt on the cathode it dumps life cycle of the battery...other issue turning down the cobalt on the battery is heat is increased and it becomes a fine line how far you can go..article awhile back said musk is working heavily on how to fully get away from the cobalt...lithium goes into thermal runaway fairly quickly and of course it reacts fairly violently with water....i applaud ford for making a go at this regardless of using the pony or not..really a gutsy move..but dam the tech is still many years into the future and the purchase cost is significant...not entering the lectric world until its economical...tesla fires do seem to be higher per number of vehicles on the road compared to gassers...few years ago there were reports of fires due to crash impacts in which the batteries were pierced which immediately causes a short to occur (thermal runaway and then the boom)

[jcartwright99]

19 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

 

 

What I just don't get is how it is technically and financially possible to produce as a $39,000 entry-level vehicle topping out at less than $70,000 for a 500-mile range, 0-60 in less than 3 seconds, with a tow rating of 14,000 lbs, all from an incredibly heavy vehicle with its body built with a (literally) rocket ship alloy of bullet-proof stainless steel. I don't see how this is doable or able to turn a profit, but defer to those who are more technically adept than I am.

 

 

It's not possible for 39K, at least with anything resembling profit.

[Captainp4]

2 minutes ago, snooter said:

Tesla is 8 year warranty??....battery is significant amount of the total cost for tesla..out of warranty battery replacement is $5k to 7k last i looked into it on a tesla......the rub here is everybody wants away from the cobalt...problem is as you reduce the cobalt on the cathode it dumps life cycle of the battery...other issue turning down the cobalt on the battery is heat is increased and it becomes a fine line how far you can go..article awhile back said musk is working heavily on how to fully get away from the cobalt...lithium goes into thermal runaway fairly quickly and of course it reacts fairly violently with water....i applaud ford for making a go at this regardless of using the pony or not..really a gutsy move..but dam the tech is still many years into the future and the purchase cost is significant...not entering the lectric world until its economical...tesla fires do seem to be higher per number of vehicles on the road compared to gassers...few years ago there were reports of fires due to crash impacts in which the batteries were pierced which immediately causes a short to occur (thermal runaway and then the boom)

The tech is really coming along and the numbers are getting very impressive. Very excited to see Ford getting out ahead of the other automakers on this. Was just curious where they were on longevity and replacement costs. It's a great time to be a Ford fan with the extremely diverse product line unfolding over the next few years.

[jpd80]

Tesla is already heavily committed to a certain battery  Chemistry and fiddling with various anode combinations. Ford and GM have the really deep pockets needed to go after transforming battery  technology.

[fuzzymoomoo]

3 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Tesla is already heavily committed to a certain battery  Chemistry and fiddling with various anode combinations. Ford and GM have the really deep pockets needed to go after transforming battery  technology.

 

Start with making EVs people actually want to buy. Ford is closer to that than GM despite GM having a pretty capable (despite being unattractive to look at) EV with Bolt. 

[blitz118]

17 hours ago, Assimilator said:

I think the big hangup for me might be leasing.  Ford doesn't say there will be leasing available, only that there will be an option for those people who want a shorter term with the vehicle.   I would not be surprised if leasing is not an option which would likely mean I go get a Model Y instead.  I think the important thing to keep in mind is that Ford is very capacity constrained because of batteries which means they won't be challenging Tesla volume for years to come.  Ford still has a really long road to hoe on EVs, it's going to remain a very tiny business for awhile.  

 

From the Mach E Forum https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/lease-program-details-for-mach-e-leasing.130/

 

Here are some early details on the lease-like program Ford will offer for the Mach-E, as explained to us by Ford at the LA Auto Show.

Q: Will the Mach-E be available for lease?
 

A: There will be a lease-like product offered. It will behave just like a lease, but the key difference being that the vehicle will be titled in the customer's name (rather than Ford Motor Company). The reason for this feature is to pass 100% of the government EV tax credit to the customer.

Otherwise, this lease-like product will behave just like a lease -- at the end of the “lease” period, the customer can turn the vehicle in no questions asked, or buy out the vehicle at a pre-set price [set at the beginning of the contract, like a lease]. This product will be the only lease type product available.

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 

Start with making EVs people actually want to buy. Ford is closer to that than GM despite GM having a pretty capable (despite being unattractive to look at) EV with Bolt. 

Never underestimate GM,  It wastes   a lot of time and money but, if they get the next BEVs right then they’re all caught up. Point being that Ford and  GM are not that far behind Tesla on BEV tech, some may say they’ve caught up in double quick time. Everything has to grow together Ev Sales and charge network, there’s still plenty of time.

Edited November 24, 2019 by jpd80

[Deanh]

On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 5:28 AM, T-dubz said:

https://insideevs.com/news/384086/elon-musk-146000-cybertruck-orders/

 

supposedly 146k reservations for the cybertruck

surprised Elon didn't say 200k plus...I mean whos going to ask for proof for a start...more questionable chestbumping...you really think theres that many people with ZERO taste….lol...and I will go out on a limb here...my bet is a lot of those were gfueled by the 39k starting price....which will never see production ( and mimics the 3s $35k bravado )

[rmc523]

On 11/24/2019 at 9:54 AM, Gurgeh said:

 

As I mentioned in the thread on this under Competing Products,  I expect a lot of that will end up being refunded (the Cybertruck deposit being $100 vs. the $1,000 required for the Model 3). But until then, Tesla gets a nice interest-free infusion of $146 million -- and for a vehicle still two years away from release.

 

What I just don't get is how it is technically and financially possible to produce as a $39,000 entry-level vehicle topping out at less than $70,000 for a 500-mile range, 0-60 in less than 3 seconds, with a tow rating of 14,000 lbs, all from an incredibly heavy vehicle with its body built with a (literally) rocket ship alloy of bullet-proof stainless steel. I don't see how this is doable or able to turn a profit, but defer to those who are more technically adept than I am.

 

 

The short answer is - it's not.