Ford to Rethink Where It Builds Its Vehicles.

[mackinaw]

From today's Detroit News.  The recent UAW strike has changed things.

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2024/02/15/ford-ceo-says-company-will-rethink-where-it-builds-vehicles-after-last-years-autoworkers-strike/72612953007/

[akirby]

No shit Sherlock.  You reap what you sow.

[DeluxeStang]

This is what many of us were saying about unions being harmful to the American workforce. They always lie, and say they exist to benefit employees. In reality, they benefit a few people in charge of the unions, yet they hurt most of the workers because they make employing American workers unsustainable, and they damage the company itself. Very few people win when unions get involved. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

And the power hungry big head UAW president wants a nationwide general strike on 5/1/28. 
 

 

[HotRunrGuy]

42 minutes ago, akirby said:

No shit Sherlock.  You reap what you sow.

 

Just wait until the Cali $50/hour minimum wage proposals gain traction,,,,,

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-senate-candidates-spar-over-dems-proposal-minimum-wage

 

HRG

Edited February 15 by HotRunrGuy

[Oac98]

1 hour ago, mackinaw said:

From today's Detroit News.  The recent UAW strike has changed things.

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2024/02/15/ford-ceo-says-company-will-rethink-where-it-builds-vehicles-after-last-years-autoworkers-strike/72612953007/

We all seen this coming from a country mile! I’m a union man and knew as we all did that the executives are strategizing how to deal with unions going forward after UAW strike.

Edited February 15 by Oacjay98

[silvrsvt]

Well the bigger issue here is that this is going to effect everyone-less young people and more older people in general means less people in the workforce, doesn't matter if your a UAW worker or a Engineer-if your in demand for something, your value is going to go up, short of being replace by AI (overstated to a point) or a robot. 

[DeluxeStang]

20 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

And the power hungry big head UAW president wants a nationwide general strike on 5/1/28. 
 

 

I'm pissed, because people like him hurt people like you guys. I agree there needs to be some sort of regulating force to represent workers. But a lot of the people running unions these days seem to have let the power go to their heads. They keep asking for more and more until brands can't afford to make products here.

[ice-capades]

To a big extent, the "Big 3" OEM's have only themselves to blame for the situation. With the exception of the UAW concessions resulting from the economic/recession situation in 2008-2009 and the bailouts (which Ford refused) granted to GM and Chrysler, and for decades the OEM's have generally agreed to most of the UAW demands through negotiations. The current contract was based on UAW demands with no negotiations and the companies basically caving in to those demands. The companies have no one to blame but themselves for not demanding concessions from the UAW. You want a 30-40% wage increase, then you (UAW) forfeit profit sharing as an example. UAW members are employees that get paid to do a job. That doesn't entitle them to profit sharing. Just an example as there are other terms in the UAW contract that should never be included.

 

Unfortunately, Ford has billions of dollars committed to the new BOC facility and others that are an issue with the UAW. Hopefully, Ford is in the process of securing sites in Mexico for future vehicle production that it will be able to utilize and replace US facilities that are deemed expendable at some point in the future. 

[Oac98]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

And the power hungry big head UAW president wants a nationwide general strike on 5/1/28. 
 

 

I’m sure these corporations will be prepared. They’ve got over 4 years to prepare. 

[akirby]

23 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

To a big extent, the "Big 3" OEM's have only themselves to blame for the situation. With the exception of the UAW concessions resulting from the economic/recession situation in 2008-2009 and the bailouts (which Ford refused) granted to GM and Chrysler, and for decades the OEM's have generally agreed to most of the UAW demands through negotiations. The current contract was based on UAW demands with no negotiations and the companies basically caving in to those demands. The companies have no one to blame but themselves for not demanding concessions from the UAW. You want a 30-40% wage increase, then you (UAW) forfeit profit sharing as an example. UAW members are employees that get paid to do a job. That doesn't entitle them to profit sharing. Just an example as there are other terms in the UAW contract that should never be included.

 

Unfortunately, Ford has billions of dollars committed to the new BOC facility and others that are an issue with the UAW. Hopefully, Ford is in the process of securing sites in Mexico for future vehicle production that it will be able to utilize and replace US facilities that are deemed expendable at some point in the future. 

 

What enabled those concessions back in the 70s and 80s is that the UAW built about 90% of the vehicles sold in the U.S., so it didn’t really matter how much labor cost as long as it cost the same for the big 3.  You just raise prices across the board.  But then the imports came and then they built plants here and now we have a global economy and you can’t just raise prices because the competition has cheaper labor.

 

Current union leaders (or whoever is really pulling the strings) believes that raising UAW wages will make it easier to organize the transplants.  It won’t, because those folks are very happy with what they have now and I’m sure their mgt has told them that without the union they’ll sell a lot more vehicles and create even more jobs, which is most likely true.

 

A good union leader would go to Ford and say how can we keep the jobs we have and create more jobs?  Then get as much as possible within that framework.  And I believe Ford would go a little above and beyond to make that happen.  But that’s off the table now. .

[silvrsvt]

23 minutes ago, akirby said:

Current union leaders (or whoever is really pulling the strings) believes that raising UAW wages will make it easier to organize the transplants.  It won’t, because those folks are very happy with what they have now and I’m sure their mgt has told them that without the union they’ll sell a lot more vehicles and create even more jobs, which is most likely true.

 

That is the unanswered question-but those automakers have a bit more flexibility in dealing with that because they could just build or move production to Mexico or other places if those plants went union. 

 

Don't discount stupidity in large groups of people. 

[Bob Rosadini]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

And the power hungry big head UAW president wants a nationwide general strike on 5/1/28. 
 

 

 

This is a real problem.  Words like "general strike" are  usually associated with countries that always seem to be in constant turmoil.  Fain is an egomaniac. What surprised me was the failure of the rank and file to see the likely results such a large settlement would lead to.  

 

Fuzzy unfortunately you are in a minority.

[akirby]

21 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

This is a real problem.  Words like "general strike" are  usually associated with countries that always seem to be in constant turmoil.  Fain is an egomaniac. What surprised me was the failure of the rank and file to see the likely results such a large settlement would lead to.  

 

Fuzzy unfortunately you are in a minority.

Remember a lot of those employees worked in the 80s and 90s and/or watched their parents work UAW jobs prior to that.  They’ve been brainwashed and don’t understand how the real world operates.

 

There are also a lot of signs that there are larger and more nefarious groups pulling Fain’s strings.

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

I'm pissed, because people like him hurt people like you guys. I agree there needs to be some sort of regulating force to represent workers. But a lot of the people running unions these days seem to have let the power go to their heads. They keep asking for more and more until brands can't afford to make products here.

He seems to be taking the writings of Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin to heart. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

24 minutes ago, akirby said:

Remember a lot of those employees worked in the 80s and 90s and/or watched their parents work UAW jobs prior to that.  They’ve been brainwashed and don’t understand how the real world operates.

The problem with that is there are real world factors that are working against the general population right now including inflation,  wages that have largely remained stagnant for decades, and the disappearance of any kind of retirement plans from many workplaces. I’m fortunate enough to have a very good 401k plan (even before the improvements in the 2023 CBA) and while I wasn’t doing terribly at what I was making (until I started getting short shifted to death last summer) new hires were hurting making barely more than what a lot of fast food places are paying these days. What I’ve found in talking to a lot of people outside of the UAW bubble is a lot of older people (aka. the people in charge now) are either unaware at how much different things are or they just don’t care. They’ve made theirs and are close to a comfortable retirement and don’t really care to do anything to help those coming in behind them and people my age and younger are very frustrated by that. 

[Footballfan]

1 hour ago, ice-capades said:

To a big extent, the "Big 3" OEM's have only themselves to blame for the situation. With the exception of the UAW concessions resulting from the economic/recession situation in 2008-2009 and the bailouts (which Ford refused) granted to GM and Chrysler, and for decades the OEM's have generally agreed to most of the UAW demands through negotiations. The current contract was based on UAW demands with no negotiations and the companies basically caving in to those demands. The companies have no one to blame but themselves for not demanding concessions from the UAW. You want a 30-40% wage increase, then you (UAW) forfeit profit sharing as an example. UAW members are employees that get paid to do a job. That doesn't entitle them to profit sharing. Just an example as there are other terms in the UAW contract that should never be included.

 

Unfortunately, Ford has billions of dollars committed to the new BOC facility and others that are an issue with the UAW. Hopefully, Ford is in the process of securing sites in Mexico for future vehicle production that it will be able to utilize and replace US facilities that are deemed expendable at some point in the future. 

I am not a fan of Fain, but moving jobs to Mexico would create a political backlash and create more bad news for Ford.  The average price of a new vehicle rose by $7,000 since 2020 or 15%.  This new contract supposedly adds about 1.9% to the $48227 average price of a new car.  What about the other 13.1 percent?  Inflation has been a cancer for the economy and wages have been forced up across the employment spectrum.  Even if Ford got a concessionary contract or moved all the work to Mexico, would Ford cut the prices of vehicles?  The problems of the Big Three run deeper than the UAW.  Bad management and excessive regulation play a major role. 

 

Ford has been steadily cutting jobs since the turn of the century and employ 40 percent less UAW members during that time (same with GM and Stellantis/Chrysler/FCA/DCX).  This was despite the fact these companies had favorable contracts.  A lot of the UAW membership felt that the union gave too much to Ford while plants were being closed- even when n profitable years-in the US and a lot of jobs being moved to Mexico and they were pissed.  Unfortunately I think that Fain went overboard, but keep in mind the UAW president is now elected by the membership -not appointed- so he has to be more aggressive with the companies. 

Edited February 15 by Footballfan

[Deanh]

3 hours ago, akirby said:

No shit Sherlock.  You reap what you sow.

I think a lot of us called this correctly...I know you and I did....layoffs...check...ship jobs elsewhere.....check......what was expected...its much like the minimum wage here in California where plces such as McDonalds havehad to counter that by raising prices, and consequently their sales are down significantly....l literallyhad a Double 1/4 pounder a filet of fish andfried the other day...$18...I can EASILY sit down in a restaurant for that, so now fest food is a treat 

[akirby]

25 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

I am not a fan of Fain, but moving jobs to Mexico would create a political backlash and create more bad news for Ford.  The average price of a new vehicle rose by $7,000 since 2020 or 15%.  This new contract supposedly adds about 1.9% to the $48227 average price of a new car.  What about the other 13.1 percent?  Inflation has been a cancer for the economy and wages have been forced up across the employment spectrum.  Even if Ford got a concessionary contract or moved all the work to Mexico, would Ford cut the prices of vehicles?  The problems of the Big Three run deeper than the UAW.  Bad management and excessive regulation play a major role. 

On a F150 it’s easier to absorb.  On a $25K vehicle it’s more like 5% and that’s the difference between making a net profit or losing money.

 

Also it’s not just about current prices but what competitors can do.  Let’s say Honda’s cost 4% less than Ford.  They could lower prices to a 2% profit forcing Ford to match them and lose money or lose sales.

 

It can also turn a positive business case negative.  Having higher costs than your competition is never good and even a few percent can be a big problem when your margins are single digit.

[akirby]

Also I think the general public is much more on Ford’s side given the outrageous demands and the subsequent strike.  Much more than years past.

[jpd80]

All bets are off, let the UAW stew on what plants they think will close after this contract ends….

 

[twintornados]

Everybody wants to earn more money and then they run over to Walmart to buy the cheapest Chinese crap they can get the hands on. I for one will not worry about the 900 dollars added to the cost of a new vehicle. The workers bust their ass for the company and deserve every penny they get.

 

This is just another useless thread to bash the UAW and unions in general. It should be locked.

Edited February 15 by twintornados

[Gurgeh]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

No shit Sherlock.  You reap what you sow.

My guess is that thanks to the new hard left direction UAW leaders are going, the BOC will be the last auto assembly complex Ford builds in the United States. I think we'll see that the new UAW will prove very good for Mexican autoworkers.

[Harley Lover]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Also I think the general public is much more on Ford’s side given the outrageous demands and the subsequent strike.  Much more than years past.

 

I'm not so sure about that. Look at how close the union vote was to accept the eventual contract. 

There are a lot of people who, for whatever the reason, are not doing well financially (particularly in the 20-35 group). 

Fuzzy posted in part:

The problem with that is there are real world factors that are working against the general population right now including inflation,  wages that have largely remained stagnant for decades, and the disappearance of any kind of retirement plans from many workplaces.  What I’ve found in talking to a lot of people outside of the UAW bubble is a lot of older people (aka. the people in charge now) are either unaware at how much different things are or they just don’t care. They’ve made theirs and are close to a comfortable retirement and don’t really care to do anything to help those coming in behind them and people my age and younger are very frustrated by that.

 

I think there is much truth in that. I'm not defending the thought process, merely observing that it's there and perhaps pervasive among the younger group.  The inflation of recent years has only exacerbated things.

[Bob Rosadini]

3 hours ago, akirby said:

Remember a lot of those employees worked in the 80s and 90s and/or watched their parents work UAW jobs prior to that.  They’ve been brainwashed and don’t understand how the real world operates.

 

There are also a lot of signs that there are larger and more nefarious groups pulling Fain’s strings.

Well now that you mention that, my comment on the term "General Strike" foots with your thought that others pull this guys strings. If any term/tactic is "Global", "General Strike" is it IMO.