New Ford Product Investments

[tbone]

Do you think the wording, “…will continue through its planned product lifecycle,” like the Escape and Corsair for example, gives them the flexibility to extend the life of the product and not replace it with an EV until it’s determined to be the appropriate time?   That wording is vague to me. 

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, tbone said:

Do you think the wording, “…will continue through its planned product lifecycle,” like the Escape and Corsair for example, gives them the flexibility to extend the life of the product and not replace it with an EV until it’s determined to be the appropriate time?   That wording is vague to me. 

 

I think it's intentionally vague so that they can adjust plans as needed.

 

I think the answer to your question is yes, though like Edge, it'll be self-fulfilling cycle of an ancient product continually losing sales due to a lack of updates, unless they're planning a rebody for one last ICE hurrah (seems unlikely).

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

I think it's intentionally vague so that they can adjust plans as needed.

 

I think the answer to your question is yes, though like Edge, it'll be self-fulfilling cycle of an ancient product continually losing sales due to a lack of updates, unless they're planning a rebody for one last ICE hurrah (seems unlikely).

 

It just got updated this model year-so it could last to 2027, which is the end of this contract anyways. 

[HotRunrGuy]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

It just got updated this model year-so it could last to 2027, which is the end of this contract anyways. 

 

I thought it ran until May Day 2028?

 

HRG

Edited November 1, 2023 by HotRunrGuy

[Bob Rosadini]

9 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

I have too many bad memories of medium duty trucks with hydraulic brakes... I want air brakes on the truck and trailer!

one was enough  ?for me

[silvrsvt]

17 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

I thought it ran until May Day 2028?

 

HRG

 

Good question, I thought it was 4 year contract?

 

The 2023 Escape first started hitting the dealerships in March of 2023(?) and if they ran till Summer of 2027 or so, with the retooling that would be required, it would most likely take them past that date?

 

The May Day BS is the UAW trying to get other unions to go on strike (if necessary I'm guessing) as solidary also. I'm guessing that once the UAW is unsuccessful at unionizing Tesla and Toyota...well I think they aren't gonna get too far. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by silvrsvt

[RedHoncho01]

According to Automotive News Future Product Pipeline, the ICE version of Escape production will end in 2025 and be replaced by a similar size EV.  Corsair ICE production will also end around the same time.  The Future Product Pipeline shows a Lincoln C-segment EV code CX802 being produced at Oakville.  This information may not be entirely accurate since the new UAW contract appears to be well on its way to ratification.  It would make sense the Lincoln EV would be produced at Louisville along with the Ford sibling.  

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, RedHoncho01 said:

According to Automotive News Future Product Pipeline, the ICE version of Escape production will end in 2025 and be replaced by a similar size EV.  Corsair ICE production will also end around the same time.  The Future Product Pipeline shows a Lincoln C-segment EV code CX802 being produced at Oakville.  This information may not be entirely accurate since the new UAW contract appears to be well on its way to ratification.  It would make sense the Lincoln EV would be produced at Louisville along with the Ford sibling.  

 

 

This is showing a start date of 1/5/2026 for the CX823 Escape...but I'm willing to bet money that sides to the right at least till the end of that year...if not 2027

 

[Trader 10]

4 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

 

This is showing a start date of 1/5/2026 for the CX823 Escape...but I'm willing to bet money that sides to the right at least till the end of that year...if not 2027

 

I think there’s a good chance the CX823 Escape never sees the light of day. It would seem to be one of the first casualties of Ford’s cuts to EV investments as it will be difficult for it to be profitable. All the EV programs are likely to be delayed given the cuts announced last week. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Trader 10
Duplicate wording

[Oac98]

9 hours ago, Trader 10 said:

I think there’s a good chance the CX823 Escape never sees the light of day. It would seem to be one of the first casualties of Ford’s cuts to EV investments as it will be difficult for it to be profitable. All the EV programs are likely to be delayed given the cuts announced last week. 

Just great 

[silvrsvt]

9 hours ago, Trader 10 said:

I think there’s a good chance the CX823 Escape never sees the light of day. It would seem to be one of the first casualties of Ford’s cuts to EV investments as it will be difficult for it to be profitable. All the EV programs are likely to be delayed given the cuts announced last week. 

 

I'd say that is doubtful...I see delays but not outright cancellations. 

 

The biggest issue is product future investment-C2 is "old" and will be really old come the end of this decade. I don't see them investing money into a new ICE Platform given all the regulations that will hit in the mid to late 2030s (which may or may not get delayed too)

 

There are a lot of ifs and buts that are happening over the next few years with EVs and much of it is over reported because it is such a "popular" subject since its controversial.  

[akirby]

No reason C2 can’t soldier on with minor improvements.  Toyota did it with Camry for 30 years.

[fuzzymoomoo]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

No reason C2 can’t soldier on with minor improvements.  Toyota did it with Camry for 30 years.

Because it’s Ford and they’ve never operated that way. CD4 is/was a phenomenal platform that could have carried on longer had they not branched off to CD6/C2. 

[silvrsvt]

24 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Because it’s Ford and they’ve never operated that way. CD4 is/was a phenomenal platform that could have carried on longer had they not branched off to CD6/C2. 

 

The CD4 and C2 share a lot of the same engineering.

 

CD6 is an orphan. 

[DeluxeStang]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

No reason C2 can’t soldier on with minor improvements.  Toyota did it with Camry for 30 years.

That's what Ford will do if they're smart, but it's not like Ford has done a lot of smart things as of late. It's pretty clear to me that out of all the modular platforms Ford has, c2 is the biggest winner by a mile, it's cheap, flexible, reliable, competitive, everything you want out of a platform. That's why Ford's probably gonna get rid of it in like 5 years. ?

 

There's been a lot of doom and gloom surrounding cheap, and affordable models these last few years, leveraging c2 can really help Ford to turn that around. Whoever developed cd6 should be fired, and the team who worked on c2 should be promoted imo. 

[DeluxeStang]

15 hours ago, Trader 10 said:

I think there’s a good chance the CX823 Escape never sees the light of day. It would seem to be one of the first casualties of Ford’s cuts to EV investments as it will be difficult for it to be profitable. All the EV programs are likely to be delayed given the cuts announced last week. 

Someone really needs to pound into Ford's head that not every model needs to sell millions of units and have a 5 grand profit margin to make it worth developing. This obsession with higher end products is killing Ford, they're Ford, they exist to be an affordable brand. Figure your shit out Ford, because if you can't find a way to make a 30k EV affordable, your rivals damn sure will.

 

They talk about EV adoption rates slowing drastically. It doesn't take a genius to figure out a large component of that has to do with most compelling EVs being at least 50 grand, usually well over that. People can't buy cars they can't afford, especially in a recession. 

 

I know battery packs are expensive, but damn, other people are making it happen, I'm fairly certain the bolt is sub 30k, especially once you factor in the $7,500 tax credit. Just don't jam a bunch of needless tech and features into the car if you're trying to make it affordable. Put the maverick designers and engineers on the front lines for this. They nailed the execution on a 20k product, they can knock it out of the park for a 30k product.

[mackinaw]

14 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

That's what Ford will do if they're smart, but it's not like Ford has done a lot of smart things as of late. It's pretty clear to me that out of all the modular platforms Ford has, c2 is the biggest winner by a mile, it's cheap, flexible, reliable, competitive, everything you want out of a platform. That's why Ford's probably gonna get rid of it in like 5 years. ...

 

At least for the Bronco Sport, the C2 platform it's based on will be around until 2030.  I suspect other C2 vehicles will be the same.

 

https://fordauthority.com/2022/12/ford-bronco-sport-to-use-c2-platform-through-2030-report/

[rmc523]

20 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

 

This is showing a start date of 1/5/2026 for the CX823 Escape...but I'm willing to bet money that sides to the right at least till the end of that year...if not 2027

 

 

2 questions:

when was this from?

 

And Bronco goes 9 years eh?

[akirby]

2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Because it’s Ford and they’ve never operated that way. CD4 is/was a phenomenal platform that could have carried on longer had they not branched off to CD6/C2. 

CD4 is a pig by comparison.  Designed for more expensive vehicles (Mondeo in Europe is a premium vehicle) and to handle V6s.  It’s too heavy and too expensive.  They should have gone from CD3 to C2.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

Someone really needs to pound into Ford's head that not every model needs to sell millions of units and have a 5 grand profit margin to make it worth developing. This obsession with higher end products is killing Ford, they're Ford, they exist to be an affordable brand. Figure your shit out Ford, because if you can't find a way to make a 30k EV affordable, your rivals damn sure will.

 

They talk about EV adoption rates slowing drastically. It doesn't take a genius to figure out a large component of that has to do with most compelling EVs being at least 50 grand, usually well over that. People can't buy cars they can't afford, especially in a recession. 

 

I know battery packs are expensive, but damn, other people are making it happen, I'm fairly certain the bolt is sub 30k, especially once you factor in the $7,500 tax credit. Just don't jam a bunch of needless tech and features into the car if you're trying to make it affordable. Put the maverick designers and engineers on the front lines for this. They nailed the execution on a 20k product, they can knock it out of the park for a 30k product.

Why chase sales and waste resources for little to no profit when there are several other options?

[DeluxeStang]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

Why chase sales and waste resources for little to no profit when there are several other options?

Because not everything has to be about profit man. Ford is making money hand over fist with their trucks, the bronco and bronco sport, the expedition, their vans. Not to mention their EVs are projected to generate billions of dollars in profit once these new dedicated  EV platforms have their moment to shine. 

 

For profit systems are great, key to a sustainable business. But some brands can get so caught up in boosting their profits, that they start to make decisions that alienate a good portion of their core consumer base. 

 

Ford has stopped making entry level cars, they're hardly making any mavericks relative to many of their other models. The escape is going away, the bronco sport has gotten more expensive. This is a real issue, because it means Ford, a brand that literally markets itself on being affordable, and has found tremendous success with that approach, is starting to forget about the affordable car buyer. Forget having anything in the teens, relatively soon, they'll hardly have anything in the 20s. 

 

There is a huge market for people who want reliable, affordable transportation, millions of buyers, and Ford is basically saying peace out buy from someone else to most of them, that's insanity. I like this new approach Ford has of making products that sell on passion, and uniqueness. But they can do both. Making an affordable escape EV isn't gonna blip something like the bronco sport out of existence. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by DeluxeStang

[Footballfan]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Why chase sales and waste resources for little to no profit when there are several other options?

The more butts you have behind the wheel of a Ford vehicle the better.  If folks go to Kia, Hyundai, Toyota, etc because they can't get what they want from Ford, they may never come back. 

[Deanh]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

Why chase sales and waste resources for little to no profit when there are several other options?

CAFE has an awful lot to answer for, forcing Ford to literally LOSE money chasing a damn near impossible dream...  

[Rick73]

I hope some of the new investment is spent on new engines and transmissions dedicated to RWD hybrids.

[rperez817]

9 hours ago, akirby said:

No reason C2 can’t soldier on with minor improvements.  Toyota did it with Camry for 30 years.

 

Toyota Camry got far more than "minor improvements" since the XV10 generation was introduced in 1991, with a complete redesign 6 times (3 of which used new platforms) and mid cycle updates 6 times to the present day (1991 - 2023)