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Assimilator

Ford Nearly Completes Car Purge

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Poking through the websites, I'm realizing now that Ford and Lincoln are nearing the end of the great car purge that has eliminated a bunch of aging car models.  C-Max, Focus, Taurus are officially gone, while Explorer/Aviator and Escape/Corsair are finally new and fully stocked.  Fiesta inventory is almost dried up and will likely be scrubbed from the site by the end of the year, and Flex ends production this week.  MKT has already been scrubbed from the Lincoln inventory and website.  That just leaves Fusion/MKZ left for another year.  Next year we start adding a bunch of new nameplates (Mach E, Bronco, Bronco Scout) and the updated F-150.  So in relatively short order, Ford has dramatically reshaped the lineup and cleaned house. Feels good to see the renovation finally coming together and setting the stage for lots of new stuff.  

 

 

 

Edited by Assimilator

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Personally I see this as good and bad. Yes this is where the market is going and it’s the right decision to make, but as someone who has moved up the ford family of vehicles over the years, it’s a bit disappointing to see the affordable/low price cars disappearing. I have no problem with the fiesta and Taurus going, but  focus was a great starter/commuter car and if you have a family, the fusion was big enough for everyone with plenty of trunk space for a family of 4, all for several thousand less then the escape or edge. 

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Yes, the crossover craze will probably be more profitable but not offering a sedan, or low cost "vehicle", doesn't introduce someone to the brand that will later buy something bigger and profitable. Let's see how this plays out next few years.

 

Last time I remember a purge like this was, I think 96-97-98, something like Mark8, Aerostar, Tbird, Cougar, Probe, Aspire, if I remember correctly.

Edited by ANTAUS

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1 hour ago, ANTAUS said:

Yes, the crossover craze will probably be more profitable but not offering a sedan, or low cost "vehicle", doesn't introduce someone to the brand that will later buy something bigger and profitable. Let's see how this plays out next few years.

 

Last time I remember a purge like this was, I think 96-97-98, something like Mark8, Aerostar, Tbird, Cougar, Probe, Aspire, if I remember correctly.

 

Can you really count Aerostar in that mix when Windstar was there to replace it? 

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There is nothing affordable on ford lot unless heavy rebates are offered on the lower end suv's....soon as gov't subsidy runs out on mach 3 its 45k clams and up...mach 3 is squarely in super duty price structure at that point....there are more than a few of us who do not need or want a low end suv for commute to work...hence across the ford lot to the foreign brands...ford only dumped cars because they are going whole hog on lectric cars....they might be able to pull it off with expected demand in china and europe and if mach 3 is built in china to cut ford's cost to build....the amount  mach 3's destined to be  shipped outside usa is telling where the demand exists..F stock is 40cents up since reveal of mach 3 and thats only due to the record highs experienced in recent trading...we will soon enuff know if fords current business plan/model was the right decision...a lot of what exists for ford is there perception in the market...thats going to be critical aspect going forth

Edited by snooter

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If you a looking for a decent sedan in the size of Focus or Fusion, might I suggest that you look at Mazda 3 and Mazda 6? I get what you are saying about losing a segment of customers, but market forces being what they are, brand loyalty is lost on Generation X, Y, Z as well as most Millennials....this observation is brought to you by someone at the tail end of the Boomers, and I don't mind if you call me one.

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They better think twice before ending Fusion. I'm seeing a lot of police depts. that have been buying Fords for 50 years now buying Dodge Chargers because they want a car, not an SUV.  You know what that means, right?  Now that they've been introduced to Dodge, they'll be buying Durango SUV's if they want an SUV!  Hold on to the Fusion, Ford!   The Ford decision makers aren't too bright.

Edited by Joe771476

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17 minutes ago, Joe771476 said:

They better think twice before ending Fusion. I'm seeing a lot of police depts. that have been buying Fords for 50 years now buying Dodge Chargers because they want a car, not an SUV.  You know what that means, right?  Now that they've been introduced to Dodge, they'll be buying Durango SUV's if they want an SUV!  Hold on to the Fusion, Ford!   The Ford decision makers aren't too bright.


I think PiU sales and suv sales in general for LEO are dwarfing car sales.  Utilities have so much more room and virtually the same gas mileage.  I hardly ever see new chargers or Taurus.

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2 hours ago, twintornados said:

If you a looking for a decent sedan in the size of Focus or Fusion, might I suggest that you look at Mazda 3 and Mazda 6? I get what you are saying about losing a segment of customers, but market forces being what they are, brand loyalty is lost on Generation X, Y, Z as well as most Millennials....this observation is brought to you by someone at the tail end of the Boomers, and I don't mind if you call me one.

 

AE76EC3B-7BF8-44EA-A78C-D78E09D1CBB0.jpeg

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3 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

I'm seeing a lot of police depts. that have been buying Fords for 50 years now buying Dodge Chargers because they want a car, not an SUV. 

 

Ford offers Police Responder Hybrid Sedan (based on Fusion Hybrid). It is pursuit-rated. NYPD put in an order for hundreds of them recently.

 

Ford-hybrid-police-vehicle-report-002.jp

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On 11/27/2019 at 9:09 PM, Assimilator said:

Poking through the websites, I'm realizing now that Ford and Lincoln are nearing the end of the great car purge that has eliminated a bunch of aging car models.  C-Max, Focus, Taurus are officially gone, while Explorer/Aviator and Escape/Corsair are finally new and fully stocked.  Fiesta inventory is almost dried up and will likely be scrubbed from the site by the end of the year, and Flex ends production this week.  MKT has already been scrubbed from the Lincoln inventory and website.  That just leaves Fusion/MKZ left for another year.  Next year we start adding a bunch of new nameplates (Mach E, Bronco, Bronco Scout) and the updated F-150.  So in relatively short order, Ford has dramatically reshaped the lineup and cleaned house. Feels good to see the renovation finally coming together and setting the stage for lots of new stuff.  

 

 

 

 

 

And this is really good?. We all know that Ford (and GM) are losing market share since they stop selling small cars. And the new Ford products (Explorer, Aviator) are very good on paper, but a disaster on execution. We know about the serious quality problems of those models. Yesterday, I read some informations that Lincoln is repurchasing many Aviators with serious defects.

Ford needs to rethink its plan and try to execute it the best way . The Explorer/Aviator fiasco is unforgivable. Imagine the same disastrous launch with the Mustang Mach E... or the Bronco. All the work lost.

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Yeah, he hates cars, so despite his supposed 'insider' status, I disregard much of what he posts.

As for the subject of this thread, there's still a small bit of hope. Mustang sedan(whatever it will be called) and just a hunch, a sedan somewhere in amongst all those EV plans. Actually there would be a pair of each, since Lincoln said that they were not abandoning sedans. Many here forget that was said when trying to attach the Continental name to another damn crossover.

Competitive pressures will eventually force them to find somewhere in North America to build the Focus.

Edited by AGR

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I'm more relieved by the elimination of aging models than the elimination of cars.   I'm not happy the Fusion is going away, but I strongly believed all of the others needed to go, especially because the Focus has always been a troublesome product for the US for many reasons.

 

I like the idea of the Fusion being replaced by what the Mondeo is getting, a low-slung stylish crossover (essentially a better looking wagon).  But it looks like we aren't getting that. 

 

And anybody thinking Ford will have to go back to Focus hasn't seen what is coming yet.  

 

 

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On 11/28/2019 at 4:39 AM, Joe771476 said:

They better think twice before ending Fusion. I'm seeing a lot of police depts. that have been buying Fords for 50 years now buying Dodge Chargers because they want a car, not an SUV.  You know what that means, right?  Now that they've been introduced to Dodge, they'll be buying Durango SUV's if they want an SUV!  Hold on to the Fusion, Ford!   The Ford decision makers aren't too bright.

 

 

Most of the city police forces around here are using Ford Explorers. 

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On 11/28/2019 at 7:58 AM, akirby said:


I think PiU sales and suv sales in general for LEO are dwarfing car sales.  Utilities have so much more room and virtually the same gas mileage.  I hardly ever see new chargers or Taurus.

 

We sold a number of Taurus Police Interceptors the first year to a lot of departments with a lot of them splitting their orders between the Taurus and Explorer PI's. Since then, every department went to Explorer PI's only because of the extra room, etc.

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It will be interesting to see how the PIU continues to sell - did it go up in price as much as the Explorer did?

 

As ugly as it is, I could see the Tesla Cybertruck (should it actually get built) make inroads in the police market. 

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It is getting there on the Lincoln side of things as well. (Also posted this on the Lincoln board.) I was surprised to see that 40% of luxury vehicle sales are still sedans. The article says that it would be nuts for Lincoln not to have a modern sedan or liftback able to compete for these sales, but I wonder what exactly Ford has in mind for this segment when the MKZ and Continential complete their life cycles.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/mark-phelan/2019/11/30/lincoln-mkz-continental-sedan-suv/4187913002/?fbclid=IwAR01manA5j_G1GR6WbR919qrOn5v6wsazR9d0Imf-eH_MFiBqu0SOMxgo7k

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3 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

It is getting there on the Lincoln side of things as well. (Also posted this on the Lincoln board.) I was surprised to see that 40% of luxury vehicle sales are still sedans. The article says that it would be nuts for Lincoln not to have a modern sedan or liftback able to compete for these sales, but I wonder what exactly Ford has in mind for this segment when the MKZ and Continential complete their life cycles.

 

The thing is that most of them are leases (lower end models) and the baby boomers are either getting too old to drive or are buying small CUVs (they are the new Crown Vic of the retirement age folks) and Gen X is firmly into CUV/SUVs, which is the next demographic that would be aimed at luxury cars.

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It appears we will be replacing the Fusion with a Mazda or Hyundai. The wife says there is nothing on Ford's lot that interests her. She also commented that it felt odd looking on lots of other manufacturers. " Do you realize this will be the first non Ford product we've bought in our 36 years together? ".

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23 minutes ago, 351cid said:

It appears we will be replacing the Fusion with a Mazda or Hyundai. The wife says there is nothing on Ford's lot that interests her. She also commented that it felt odd looking on lots of other manufacturers. " Do you realize this will be the first non Ford product we've bought in our 36 years together? ".

And this is a very sad commentary.  I was at a family gathering  recently and there were like 3 "new " high end trim level Focuses there.  Good looking small cars.

 

For sure  it is about profitability but isn't  that what well paid people at the top are supposed to  figure out?  Keep your customer base with attractive products that also make money.  

 

But we  would rather blame the Koreans lower labor costs and close up  shop.

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Can't say I'm sorry to see the sedans go. Last "car" I purchased was a mid-90's Taurus wagon for my wife, after she got t-boned when it was a week old, it's been a steady stream of SUV's since then (Explorer's, Expedition, Escapes and now an Edge).  With my daughters Escape in the shop, we've been given a '19 Fusion as a loaner, what a PITA to get in and out of.

 

HRG

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32 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

And this is a very sad commentary.  I was at a family gathering  recently and there were like 3 "new " high end trim level Focuses there.  Good looking small cars.

 

For sure  it is about profitability but isn't  that what well paid people at the top are supposed to  figure out?  Keep your customer base with attractive products that also make money.  

 

But we  would rather blame the Koreans lower labor costs and close up  shop.


It’s not really cheap labor.  The Koreans are willing to take a tiny profit margin in the US.  Combine that with a saturated market compared to 20 years ago and the popularity of crossovers and you’re left with price wars and razor thin margins even for the top rated contenders.

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36 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Keep your customer base with attractive products that also make money. 

 

The products that Ford's customer base find most attractive, figuratively speaking, are trucks and SUVs. And those are also the products that are most profitable for Ford.

 

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46 minutes ago, akirby said:


It’s not really cheap labor.  The Koreans are willing to take a tiny profit margin in the US.  Combine that with a saturated market compared to 20 years ago and the popularity of crossovers and you’re left with price wars and razor thin margins even for the top rated contenders.

 

Thats why there's something to be said for Sergio's never ending quest to merge with someone, anyone. The industry could do better with less brands IMO. 

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